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Bruce Lychee Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2011 Posts: 856
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Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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Rocness wrote: | cello wrote: | RonF wrote: | Rocness wrote: | I would like to here more about what a registration is and how many diffrent pad sounds there are . BTW where the hell is the list of sounds on the JP-80 I can't find it anywhere . how many ? |
I cannot find the list either. Ticks me off! |
Sound list here: http://www.roland.com/products/en/_support/om.cfm?PRODUCT=JUPITER%2D80
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Holy Sh!t ! This thing has over 2000 tones and over 2000 Live Sets . WOW!
The Jp-80 must have broken a recored for most sound in a hardware synth ever . I must have this synth Now and all of those pads sounds WoW ! |
A few more articulation demos and I'll post some of those pads for you. _________________ Shigeru Kawai SK5
Roland Jupiter 80
Vintage Vibe 64 |
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Chriskk Senior Member
Joined: 10 May 2011 Posts: 349
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Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Too many listing of violin 1, violin2, guitar 1, giutar 2, guitar 3, etc etc
Not sure why companys do that...probably make life easy for them in terms of getting the documenation finished lol
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A tone of the JP-80 is not tied to one particular articulation of the instrument (e.g., legato). Thus, it wouldn't make a sense to use a descriptive name for an acoustic instrument. |
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RonF Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2002 Posts: 1179 Location: San Diego, CA USA
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Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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cello...THANK YOU!!!! Better late than never! This is very helpful. Appreciate it! _________________ http://soundcloud.com/ronf-3/sets/ronf-music
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr1zAKpV_F226LQZrUYGPQA
Favorite Gear: Kronos 61, M3, Z1, Radias, KPro, KP3, Moog Voyager, Foogers, Virus TI, Jupiter 80, Integra7, GAIA, SPD-30, Kiwi 106, RE-201, MC808, RC505, MV8800, DSI P6 and OB6 and P12, Ensoniq SQ80, EMU MP-7, Eventide H7600, Eclipse, SPACE, Pitchfactor, Timefactor, Looperlative LP-1, Axe FX Ultra, Nord Modular, DSI Tetra, Tempest, PEK, JDXA, Eurorack Modular, Octatrack, MDUW, Monomachine, A4, RYTM, Waldorf Q Phoenix, MWXTk, Blofeld, TR8. |
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Rocness Guest
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Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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Bruce Lychee wrote: | Rocness wrote: | cello wrote: | RonF wrote: | Rocness wrote: | I would like to here more about what a registration is and how many diffrent pad sounds there are . BTW where the hell is the list of sounds on the JP-80 I can't find it anywhere . how many ? |
I cannot find the list either. Ticks me off! |
Sound list here: http://www.roland.com/products/en/_support/om.cfm?PRODUCT=JUPITER%2D80
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Holy Sh!t ! This thing has over 2000 tones and over 2000 Live Sets . WOW!
The Jp-80 must have broken a recored for most sound in a hardware synth ever . I must have this synth Now and all of those pads sounds WoW ! |
A few more articulation demos and I'll post some of those pads for you. |
Yes please , thank you Bruce ! |
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RonF Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2002 Posts: 1179 Location: San Diego, CA USA
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Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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Rocness wrote: |
Holy Sh!t ! This thing has over 2000 tones and over 2000 Live Sets . WOW!
The Jp-80 must have broken a recored for most sound in a hardware synth ever . I must have this synth Now and all of those pads sounds WoW ! |
I have to agree with your general point.....
I was initially concerned with the fact that the JP80 is not a sampler, and has no expansion ports, and is therefore a "closed system" (no way to add content unless Roland adds it for you). But that concern was quickly abated when I realized the sheer size and depth of the onboard sounds. Not only do you get 1900 "tones" which are made from either "Supernatural wave ROM" or true VA synthesis, and therefore have tons of depth and possibility.....but its the 2300 (!!!) onboard live sets which are truly a marvel of programming. What makes it a marvel?, you might ask. Well...the sound is one thing....they just sound outstanding...but more than that is the diversity! I have had a number of keyboards in my time where there are hundreds of programs, with great patch-names...but still a "sameness" to them, and a lack of variation after final analysis. This is NOT JP80. There are in fact thousands of sounds...and the variation is notable....and the quality and usability in practical application is very high, to my own standard and style of music anyways.
One other thing to take note of....after all the marketing and talk in regard to the JP80 and its "SuperNatural Acoustic" sounds.....which has really dominated the discussion about this keyboard for the past several months....Just look now and see that the board contains only 117 SuperNatural Acoustic tones (which is pretty remarkable when you consider that each genre of Tone is equivalent to an ARX card from the Fantom G series, each of which cost nearly $500 US retail)....but the JP80 contains 1900 (!!!) Synth Tones! Gee...do you think the balance of what this SYNTH is about, is more than just a behavior modeled acoustic sampling "performance instrument"??? (117 vs. 1900). This is *predominantly* a modeled VA *synthesizer*. Why Roland focused so hard on such a small (percentage-wise) aspect of the JP80 I am not sure....but that IS the angle they chose. Bruce has said it was a directive from the Top. And so I respect their choice. But to my ears......its the SYNTH aspect of this board which is under-reported and under-considered. Do bear in mind that these 1900 synth tones are not your run-of-the-mill PCM synth waves. These are, as you can see, "SuperNatural Synth Tones"....in that they are modeled VA Oscillators and Filters, with highly expressive properties and/or articulations.
Just to keep a Kronos connection in this thread.....because that IS important (it truly IS)..... I spent a lot of time this weekend with these two keyboards side by side. Aron's "MS-20" thread really got me inspired. I have to say that the Kronos has a quality and responsiveness that is unbelievably good....and just goes sooo deep. And its real time controls are diverse and really add to both the programming and performance possibilities. And this is not just MS20, either. Its all of the synth engines. Mod 7 and STR1 are generating sounds and tones that absolutely are unique and breathtaking (not just the factory presets...but noodling around in the engine). JP80 does NOT have any where near the depth that the Kronos does, as far as the diversity of sounds, programming, or real time performance controls (not even touching on its workstation features....because JP80 is NOT a workstation).
But what JP80 does well, it does REALLY well. It has a sound that Kronos does not do. I really did some critical listening and programming this weekend. They are two totally different sounding keyboards. You can get a smooth pad on the Kronos...but it doesn't have the creamy sheen of the the JP80. JP80 gets THICK, without getting too full or crowded. Kronos cannot get "as" smooth without getting too full, by comparison.
On the other hand, as Aron's MS20 demo displayed, Kronos can in several engines get truly "bad ass", and really REALLY responsive to performance controls. I tried to get JP80 to display this type of Grit and Muscle. It can do a fair approximation....but its no contest. That "sheen" that is inherent to JP80's architecture and sound quality....persists, and is not conducive to that edgy warm "tone" of the Kronos. Its very much like my (former) JP6, or Juno 106. It excels at pads, soundscapes, and special synth effects.....but does not have that edgy analog tone that Kronos can achieve. And JP80 does lack the wealth of performance controllers onboard. So...I spend some time programming Kronos control surface to modulate JP80 patches (via midi)....and guess what....works pretty damn good....but still not as responsive, as you would expect, as native Kronos programming.
So...all in all...I feel blessed and overwhelmed to have BOTH of these keyboards. The sonic arsenal you get from both is absolutely stunning. I was really having numerous "wow!" moments over the weekend as I explored integrating these two together. I really didn't use anything else. In fact, I had the audio outs of the JP going into the Kronos as I explored some routing and processing/modulation creations too. Just the horsepower you get from these two is unreal....no computer necessary (my favorite part)! I feel so strongly that I would say its, at the very least, on par with Omnisphere from a sonics point of view. Kronos is more the master controller/studio in a box....JP80 is like an "add on synth engine" of massive proportions. Put the two together......and its just overwhelming (in the best possible way).
Thanks for hearing my thoughts, which are perhaps a bit more balanced after a few weeks of owning JP80 and Kronos together.
Ron _________________ http://soundcloud.com/ronf-3/sets/ronf-music
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr1zAKpV_F226LQZrUYGPQA
Favorite Gear: Kronos 61, M3, Z1, Radias, KPro, KP3, Moog Voyager, Foogers, Virus TI, Jupiter 80, Integra7, GAIA, SPD-30, Kiwi 106, RE-201, MC808, RC505, MV8800, DSI P6 and OB6 and P12, Ensoniq SQ80, EMU MP-7, Eventide H7600, Eclipse, SPACE, Pitchfactor, Timefactor, Looperlative LP-1, Axe FX Ultra, Nord Modular, DSI Tetra, Tempest, PEK, JDXA, Eurorack Modular, Octatrack, MDUW, Monomachine, A4, RYTM, Waldorf Q Phoenix, MWXTk, Blofeld, TR8. |
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Rocness Guest
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:03 am Post subject: |
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RonF wrote: | Rocness wrote: |
Holy Sh!t ! This thing has over 2000 tones and over 2000 Live Sets . WOW!
The Jp-80 must have broken a recored for most sound in a hardware synth ever . I must have this synth Now and all of those pads sounds WoW ! |
Kronos is more the master controller/studio in a box....JP80 is like an "add on synth engine" of massive proportions. Put the two together......and its just overwhelming (in the best possible way)
Ron |
Yea Ron , that's probably one of the most powerful combos in the world right now .
Aging with Roland marketing , what I don't understand is why are they marketing it as a live keyboard when it could do just as good or better in the studio .I mean the JP-80 looks like it could be the center of a production studio , just connect to a MPC or a DAW and your set . |
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Chriskk Senior Member
Joined: 10 May 2011 Posts: 349
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:17 am Post subject: |
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Probably because it's only 4 part multi-timbral. Given its processing power, the JP-80 could easily be 16 part multi-timbral. I guess someone at the Roland HQ made a decision. It doesn't matter to me because I rarely use more than 2-3 different MIDI channels from a single synth. |
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michelkeijzers Approved Merchant
Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Posts: 9113 Location: Netherlands
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:48 am Post subject: |
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What I regularly do (on my M50) is selecting a combi that sounds good and add sounds for the other layers, so 4 channel multitimbral would be far too less. I liked the 16 channel improvement over the 8 of the Extreme. _________________
Developer of the free PCG file managing application for most Korg workstations: PCG Tools, see https://www.kronoshaven.com/pcgtools/ |
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sani Senior Member
Joined: 22 Jul 2002 Posts: 354 Location: Croatia
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:38 am Post subject: |
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Being amazed about the number of tones is almost the same as being amazed about the number of multi samples in a keyboard. The tone/liveset is not your standard work area.
You use tones/livesets to create the final megapatch or call it whatever you like, on the jp80 it's the registration and there you have 256 user slots.
Not to mention that the ununderstandable crappy file system prevents you to load single registrations, depending on when and where you may need them.
Also, comparing the number of acoustic SN tones against the synth tones doesn't say anything about the focus of the keyboard. It's not the same to create a supernatural trumpet and a synth based patch. In the time that was used for just sampling all the articulations, you could program dozens of patches on the VA part. |
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Mystic38 Senior Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2010 Posts: 266
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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With all respect, in every thread where the jp80 is mentioned, you are negative..
As musicians we should appreciate art for what it is and what it can do by itself..
If you have played the jp80 then feel free to write your own personal review.. If you have not, then perhaps you need to question your objectivity.
sani wrote: | Being amazed about the number of tones is almost the same as being amazed about the number of multi samples in a keyboard. The tone/liveset is not your standard work area.
You use tones/livesets to create the final megapatch or call it whatever you like, on the jp80 it's the registration and there you have 256 user slots.
Not to mention that the ununderstandable crappy file system prevents you to load single registrations, depending on when and where you may need them.
Also, comparing the number of acoustic SN tones against the synth tones doesn't say anything about the focus of the keyboard. It's not the same to create a supernatural trumpet and a synth based patch. In the time that was used for just sampling all the articulations, you could program dozens of patches on the VA part. |
_________________ Korg PA4X, Nord Stage 3, Virus Ti Polar, Novation Nova II, Yamaha S70XS, MPC-X, TC Helicon Voicelive Rack, KRK VXT8 monitors, 2012 LP Standard, 1999 Am. hardtail Strat, Fender DRRI, Orange AD30HTC, Marshall Vintage Modern, 2 cans and a piece of string... |
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Mystic38 Senior Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2010 Posts: 266
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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+1
Certainly all the focus was on the supernatural stuff.. here, the web, the blurb and at the clan..
funnily enough i think i was perhaps the lone person waiting with the priority of hearing the VA stuff.. so i am very happy that you and bruce rate it so highly!..
thanks for the ongoing posts
RonF wrote: | One other thing to take note of....after all the marketing and talk in regard to the JP80 and its "SuperNatural Acoustic" sounds.....which has really dominated the discussion about this keyboard for the past several months....Just look now and see that the board contains only 117 SuperNatural Acoustic tones (which is pretty remarkable when you consider that each genre of Tone is equivalent to an ARX card from the Fantom G series, each of which cost nearly $500 US retail)....but the JP80 contains 1900 (!!!) Synth Tones! Gee...do you think the balance of what this SYNTH is about, is more than just a behavior modeled acoustic sampling "performance instrument"??? (117 vs. 1900). This is *predominantly* a modeled VA *synthesizer*. Ron |
_________________ Korg PA4X, Nord Stage 3, Virus Ti Polar, Novation Nova II, Yamaha S70XS, MPC-X, TC Helicon Voicelive Rack, KRK VXT8 monitors, 2012 LP Standard, 1999 Am. hardtail Strat, Fender DRRI, Orange AD30HTC, Marshall Vintage Modern, 2 cans and a piece of string... |
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sani Senior Member
Joined: 22 Jul 2002 Posts: 354 Location: Croatia
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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Mystic38 wrote: | With all respect, in every thread where the jp80 is mentioned, you are negative.. |
Mystic38,
yes I'm negative about the jp80 and I have my reasons as a FG owner and an insight into how their keyboards work and what they can do. But I respect opinions from other people and always try to give an argument for my opinions.
Mystic38 wrote: | As musicians we should appreciate art for what it is and what it can do by itself.. |
Besides art, I as a musician have a task to accomplish and I have to take into account what this keyboard delivers for my job and how well does it deliver for that amount of money. In that regard I'm still negative about the jp80. But if I would be a millionaire, I would certainly buy it, play it in my own keyboard room and think about art.
Mystic38 wrote: | If you have played the jp80 then feel free to write your own personal review.. If you have not, then perhaps you need to question your objectivity.
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I told you at least ten thousand times and I'll tell you again, and again and again:
I don't need to play it to know where that keyboard delivers or where it fails. Why don't you get it?
If you know that 512 voice polyphony is a must for your work, do you need to try a 32 voice polyphony keyboard before you can say that it doesn't deliver what you need?
I'm looking at the keyboard from the perspective how it is marketed so far: it's a performance keyboard and has it flaws all over on all levels. For me. That's important. It should be clear that I'm always expressing my own opinion. And I won't list its flaws here because we all discussed this.
[/quote] |
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Mystic38 Senior Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2010 Posts: 266
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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you have not told me anything 10,000 times.. only my wife has done that.
So..simply because your FG did not work to your satisfaction the JP80 must suck?.. now that is sound logic
You have not heard the JP80 and it still sucks..also sound logic
The JP80 does not do what you want and so it sucks more.. even better logic
peace out..
sani wrote: | Mystic38 wrote: | With all respect, in every thread where the jp80 is mentioned, you are negative.. |
Mystic38,
yes I'm negative about the jp80 and I have my reasons as a FG owner and an insight into how their keyboards work and what they can do. But I respect opinions from other people and always try to give an argument for my opinions.
Mystic38 wrote: | As musicians we should appreciate art for what it is and what it can do by itself.. |
Besides art, I as a musician have a task to accomplish and I have to take into account what this keyboard delivers for my job and how well does it deliver for that amount of money. In that regard I'm still negative about the jp80. But if I would be a millionaire, I would certainly buy it, play it in my own keyboard room and think about art.
Mystic38 wrote: | If you have played the jp80 then feel free to write your own personal review.. If you have not, then perhaps you need to question your objectivity.
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I told you at least ten thousand times and I'll tell you again, and again and again:
I don't need to play it to know where that keyboard delivers or where it fails. Why don't you get it?
If you know that 512 voice polyphony is a must for your work, do you need to try a 32 voice polyphony keyboard before you can say that it doesn't deliver what you need?
I'm looking at the keyboard from the perspective how it is marketed so far: it's a performance keyboard and has it flaws all over on all levels. For me. That's important. It should be clear that I'm always expressing my own opinion. And I won't list its flaws here because we all discussed this.
| [/quote] _________________ Korg PA4X, Nord Stage 3, Virus Ti Polar, Novation Nova II, Yamaha S70XS, MPC-X, TC Helicon Voicelive Rack, KRK VXT8 monitors, 2012 LP Standard, 1999 Am. hardtail Strat, Fender DRRI, Orange AD30HTC, Marshall Vintage Modern, 2 cans and a piece of string... |
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Bruce Lychee Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2011 Posts: 856
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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sani wrote: | Being amazed about the number of tones is almost the same as being amazed about the number of multi samples in a keyboard. The tone/liveset is not your standard work area.
You use tones/livesets to create the final megapatch or call it whatever you like, on the jp80 it's the registration and there you have 256 user slots.
Not to mention that the ununderstandable crappy file system prevents you to load single registrations, depending on when and where you may need them.
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Good job of make something negative out of something positive. Whatever your final work area may be, how can having access to over 2000 factory tones and sets be anything but good?
There are 256 registration slots but multiple registrations that can be loaded. I'm not sure in that any particular situation I would need access to more than 256 registrations or "combis" at any given time.
What is it that you don't understand about the file system? It is really straight forward, especially if you take the time to play the board. _________________ Shigeru Kawai SK5
Roland Jupiter 80
Vintage Vibe 64 |
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Devnor Full Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2011 Posts: 222
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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Sani makes a good point about file management...its the achilles heel of my Fantom however the Jupiter 80 is an all new system. I made a post over on rolandclan to see if anyone in the know might shed some light. |
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