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Vermeer Senior Member
Joined: 29 Jan 2005 Posts: 383 Location: Montreal, CANADA
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:28 am Post subject: ProTools - Can Kronos export digital audio at 44.1kHz? |
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I know the manual & brochure only mentions 48kHz, but can you select 44.1kHz sample rate for the S/PDIF out?
Since I'm using ProTools, any trick to do that without re-sampling the whole session is welcomed.
(Note that I don't own a Kronos yet)
Last edited by Vermeer on Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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SeedyLee Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2006 Posts: 1371 Location: Perth, Australia
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:33 am Post subject: |
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I suspect you mean 44.1 kHz, as that is a much more common sampling frequency than 41.1 kHz?
Either way, the Kronos is fixed at 48 kHz and I do not believe there is a way to change this. I guess the easiest work-around is to use the analogue outputs and resample?
Personally, I work exclusively at 48 kHz as most of my digital equipment operates at this frequency natively. _________________ Current Equipment:
Korg Kronos 2 88, Reface CS, Roland JV-1080, TE OP1, Moog Subsequent 37, Korg ARP Odyssey, Allen & Heath Zed 18, Adam F5, MOTU MIDI Express XT, Lexicon MX200 & MPX1, Yamaha QY700, Yamaha AW16G, Tascam DP008ex, Zoom H6, Organelle, Roland J6 & JU06A
Previous: Triton LE 61/Sampling/64MB/4GB SCSI, MS2000BR, Kronos 1 61, Monotribe, NanoKontrol, NanoKeys, Kaossilator II, Casio HT3000, Roland VP-03, Reface DX, Novation Mininova, MPC One |
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Vermeer Senior Member
Joined: 29 Jan 2005 Posts: 383 Location: Montreal, CANADA
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:50 am Post subject: |
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SeedyLee wrote: | I suspect you mean 44.1 kHz, as that is a much more common sampling frequency than 41.1 kHz? |
Yeah, end of a long work day. I've fixed the post.
SeedyLee wrote: |
Personally, I work exclusively at 48 kHz as most of my digital equipment operates at this frequency natively. |
I guess that would be the best solution for new ProTools sessions, but old ones will have to be recorded using analogue I/O. |
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popmann Senior Member
Joined: 24 Sep 2011 Posts: 350 Location: Nashville
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:51 am Post subject: |
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You don't want to use the digital outs. The analog sounds better.
My recorder can actually do realtime resampling-it's a function of your recorder really. I still record it via analog. The sounds were designed for using these converters. So, in terms of D/A, you're better off analog...if your A/D isn't up to capturing it--that's what you want to address, as it will have the same effect on everything else you record. |
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SeedyLee Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2006 Posts: 1371 Location: Perth, Australia
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:02 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | You don't want to use the digital outs. The analog sounds better. |
That's a very interesting suggestion. A gppd DAC should be as neutral as possible - if the Kronos' DACs are colouring the sound to such an extent that the patches and engines have been designed for the particular DACs in the Kronos, then they're obviously not particularly neutral.
Are you suggesting that to create a good sounding mixdown using the internal sequencer, one would need to playback the mix through the analogue outs, then resample through the analogue ins, as recording to a WAV file bypasses the DAVs altogether?
Incidentally, what DAC did you try using when you realised you preferred the analogue sound o the Kronos?
Not disagreeing, and certainly in some cases recording from analogue can make sense, but personally I don't think the analogue signal of the Kronos has enough character worth capturing to make the extra complexity (and aliasing and noise) worth it. The more times you convert from analogue to digital, and digital to analogue, the more fidelity is lost (note I said fidelity, not quality). _________________ Current Equipment:
Korg Kronos 2 88, Reface CS, Roland JV-1080, TE OP1, Moog Subsequent 37, Korg ARP Odyssey, Allen & Heath Zed 18, Adam F5, MOTU MIDI Express XT, Lexicon MX200 & MPX1, Yamaha QY700, Yamaha AW16G, Tascam DP008ex, Zoom H6, Organelle, Roland J6 & JU06A
Previous: Triton LE 61/Sampling/64MB/4GB SCSI, MS2000BR, Kronos 1 61, Monotribe, NanoKontrol, NanoKeys, Kaossilator II, Casio HT3000, Roland VP-03, Reface DX, Novation Mininova, MPC One |
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popmann Senior Member
Joined: 24 Sep 2011 Posts: 350 Location: Nashville
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:30 am Post subject: |
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The Echo is what I compared.
The Kronos is the opposite of neutral. That's the point. You can hear all kinds of artifacts in the sample editing with the other DA. But, that doesn't matter. It's an instrument. Connect it analog, it sounds great. |
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popmann Senior Member
Joined: 24 Sep 2011 Posts: 350 Location: Nashville
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:32 am Post subject: |
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I'm also not attempting to use a keyboard as anything more than a demo machine, in terms of sequencing...if you're doing multitrack audio stuff you want to export, just export it and import it into PT.
...I thought the question was about recording the keyboard...via SPDIF in a 44.1 session. |
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Vermeer Senior Member
Joined: 29 Jan 2005 Posts: 383 Location: Montreal, CANADA
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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popmann wrote: | ...I thought the question was about recording the keyboard...via SPDIF in a 44.1 session. |
That was exactly my question. I sequence into ProTools midi tracks and then record synths into mono audio tracks for mixing. All my sessions are at 44.1kHz, so until now I've always recorded the analogue outputs. My old Triton didn't have a digital board, so it was never an option. |
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PianoManChuck Platinum Member
Joined: 09 Aug 2011 Posts: 832 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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I always use the analog outs too. Sounds great! _________________ Check me out at PianoManChuck |
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danatkorg Product Manager, Korg R&D
Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 4204 Location: California, USA
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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popmann wrote: | The Echo is what I compared.
The Kronos is the opposite of neutral. That's the point. You can hear all kinds of artifacts in the sample editing with the other DA. But, that doesn't matter. It's an instrument. Connect it analog, it sounds great. |
I'm glad that you like the sound, but I find it hard to believe that there is any significant coloration in the D/A. The D/A on the KRONOS is the same as on the OASYS, uses reasonably high-end components, and is designed to be as linear as possible. The DAC itself is the Burr-Brown PCM1793: 24-Bit of course, Dynamic Range 113 dB, THD+N 0.001%. _________________ Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com |
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michelkeijzers Approved Merchant
Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Posts: 9113 Location: Netherlands
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popmann Senior Member
Joined: 24 Sep 2011 Posts: 350 Location: Nashville
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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Dan...that's fair...no converter is as I said "the opposite of neutral"...
My point was that they were the DA the sounds were designed on...and even a modest "general recording" DA exposed flaws in the velocity switching and decays that are mostly masked by the built in conversion. Whether that's an intentional LPF or something on the built in--or just a side effect of using them to monitor during sound design...I'd just be guessing, and at the end of the day, doesn't matter--string some nice analog cables from it to whatever AD you are comfortable with to track any other analog source--no clocking issues+great sound. |
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danatkorg Product Manager, Korg R&D
Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 4204 Location: California, USA
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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popmann wrote: | Dan...that's fair...no converter is as I said "the opposite of neutral"...
My point was that they were the DA the sounds were designed on...and even a modest "general recording" DA exposed flaws in the velocity switching and decays that are mostly masked by the built in conversion. Whether that's an intentional LPF or something on the built in--or just a side effect of using them to monitor during sound design... |
The KRONOS uses highly linear, low-noise D/A converters. That means no lowpass filtering, and no significant alteration of the sound of any kind. If you heard a noticeable difference with an external D/A via S/PDIF, my first guess is that the clock wasn't set up properly (the most common problem with digital audio setups), or that the external D/A was problematic in some other way, or that the internal D/A wasn't functioning properly.
Measure it and see!
- Dan _________________ Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com |
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popmann Senior Member
Joined: 24 Sep 2011 Posts: 350 Location: Nashville
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Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:12 am Post subject: |
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There's ALWAYS a LPF on a DA. No? It's part of the DA process.
I'm not saying it sounded BAD mind you with the echo...it was subtle, but clearer in a way that allowed me to here little things I didn't care to hear.
The DA was clocked from the Kronos's Spidf...there are certainly people who will claim externally clocking, particularly over optical will always negatively impact the conversion. But, again...really a non issue for me, as the DA on the unit sounds fab.
AND...if I might digress further, thank whomever at Korg made the master volume an analog circuit. That SO makes a difference, IMO, over lowering a digital volume.
Have I mentioned that I'm sampling my fave creations of mine from old keyboards...as well as some common components--and they sound SO much nicer coming out of the Kronos? Anyway...at the risk of sounding like a fanboy...I am consolidating to where I will literally have a single digital keyboard. And the computer for drum replacement and string arrangements. In my 25 years of playing digital keys of many makes and models, I have never been able to say that would be possible. |
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danatkorg Product Manager, Korg R&D
Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 4204 Location: California, USA
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Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:39 am Post subject: |
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popmann wrote: | My point was that they were the DA the sounds were designed on...and even a modest "general recording" DA exposed flaws in the velocity switching and decays that are mostly masked by the built in conversion. Whether that's an intentional LPF or something on the built in--or just a side effect of using them to monitor during sound design... |
danatkorg wrote: | The KRONOS uses highly linear, low-noise D/A converters. That means no lowpass filtering, and no significant alteration of the sound of any kind. If you heard a noticeable difference with an external D/A via S/PDIF, my first guess is that the clock wasn't set up properly (the most common problem with digital audio setups), or that the external D/A was problematic in some other way, or that the internal D/A wasn't functioning properly. |
popmann wrote: | There's ALWAYS a LPF on a DA. No? It's part of the DA process. |
Yes and no. D/As use reconstruction filters:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconstruction_filter
The reconstruction filter should simply reproduce the continuous analog signal represented by the digital data. It should not affect the audible frequency response.
popmann wrote: | But, again...really a non issue for me, as the DA on the unit sounds fab. |
Glad to hear it! I like it, too. _________________ Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com |
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