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Missing information in Kronos MIDI implementation?

 
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timg11
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Joined: 04 Jun 2008
Posts: 459
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 7:00 pm    Post subject: Missing information in Kronos MIDI implementation? Reply with quote
Compared to the Triton Studio, some important information is left out of the Kronos MIDI Implementation documents.

As an example, here is the documentation from TritonStudiomidi.txt describing the TS SW1&2 assignments, and the "footnote" **1-2



Code:

|      b0~~5| SW 2 ASSIGN TYPE    |   00~~0C :         **1-2|                             |  00,05  |
|     ------+---------------------+-------------------------+-----------------------------+---------+
| 219  bit6 | SW2 TOGGLE/MOMENTARY|   0:Toggle, 1:Momentary |                             |  00,09  |


**1-2 : 0 : OFF                 1 : SW 1/2 Mod:CC#80/CC#81      2 : Porta SW                3 : Octave Down
        4 : Octave Up           5 : JS X Lock                   6 : JS+Y Lock               7 : JS-Y Lock
        8 : Ribbon Lock         9 : JS X & Ribbon Lock          A : JS+Y & Ribbon Lock      B : JS-Y & Ribbon Lock
        C : After Touch Lock


In the Kronos file Combi.txt, the corresponding information is:

Code:
Switch1 Assign                             | 00~0F        | Off~Chord Switch

There are no footnotes or explanations for any enumerated types.

I'm deep into writing a program to convert Triton family Combis to Kronos, and I keep running into this issue.

I have to resort to on-screen inspection and manual copying of information out of the Kronos. In the case above, the mapping between the Triton and Kronos switch assigns is not 1 to 1 - there are subtle but significant differences.
This is just one of many similar situations I have found, and I'm only a little ways into this.

This lack of documentation really slows down my progress, since I can't work when I'm away from the Kronos.

Does anybody know of any more complete source of information? If not, maybe those of us that are involved in programming can share to get the documentation up to the level of the Triton?

In another thread we have discussed the need for multisample names to develop program mappings. While the names are theoretically available in the Voice Names List, this is in PDF format and it is secured just to make it even harder to use. Why couldn't that same information be made available in a text file or Excel spreadsheet?

Thanks!
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cello
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Joined: 11 Jun 2009
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Location: Glasgow, UK
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I know Michel got some specialist help from Korg with information that allowed him to develop PCGTools.

Perhaps a PM to danatkorg or RichF, explaining what your problem is and what you're trying to achieve might help get the information you need.
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Plugged in: Fantom 8, Jupiter-X, Jupiter 80, System-8, JD-XA, V-Synth GTv2, FA-06, SE-02, JU-06A, TR-09, VT-4, Go:Livecast, Rubix44, Shure SM7b, Push2, Ableton 11 Suite, Sibelius, KRK Rokit 5,
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michelkeijzers
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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm afraid I don't have that more information than you.

I only needed a few values and I indeed copied them from typing over at the actual instrument.

It's best to contact Dan at Korg, be prepared to sign an NDA if your wish is accepted.

About the sample names: you can just copy them from the PDF, below is an example:

Multisample
ROM
# Name
0000 Acoustic Piano 1 mf -L
0001 Acoustic Piano 1 mf -R
0002 Acoustic Piano 1 f -L
0003 Acoustic Piano 1 f -R
0004 Acoustic Piano 1 ff -L
0005 Acoustic Piano 1 ff -R
0006 Acoustic Piano 1 mf-mono
0007 Acoustic Piano 1 f-mono
0008 Acoustic Piano 1 ff-mono
0009 A.Piano-M1
0010 Electric Grand Piano

You only need to split the numbers and names but that's not that difficult.
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Developer of the free PCG file managing application for most Korg workstations: PCG Tools, see https://www.kronoshaven.com/pcgtools/
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cynkh
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Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 526
Location: Buffalo, N.Y.
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 1:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Missing information in Kronos MIDI implementation? Reply with quote
timg11 wrote:
Compared to the Triton Studio, some important information is left out of the Kronos MIDI Implementation documents.

As an example, here is the documentation from TritonStudiomidi.txt describing the TS SW1&2 assignments, and the "footnote" **1-2



Code:

|      b0~~5| SW 2 ASSIGN TYPE    |   00~~0C :         **1-2|                             |  00,05  |
|     ------+---------------------+-------------------------+-----------------------------+---------+
| 219  bit6 | SW2 TOGGLE/MOMENTARY|   0:Toggle, 1:Momentary |                             |  00,09  |


**1-2 : 0 : OFF                 1 : SW 1/2 Mod:CC#80/CC#81      2 : Porta SW                3 : Octave Down
        4 : Octave Up           5 : JS X Lock                   6 : JS+Y Lock               7 : JS-Y Lock
        8 : Ribbon Lock         9 : JS X & Ribbon Lock          A : JS+Y & Ribbon Lock      B : JS-Y & Ribbon Lock
        C : After Touch Lock


In the Kronos file Combi.txt, the corresponding information is:

Code:
Switch1 Assign                             | 00~0F        | Off~Chord Switch

There are no footnotes or explanations for any enumerated types.

I'm deep into writing a program to convert Triton family Combis to Kronos, and I keep running into this issue.

I have to resort to on-screen inspection and manual copying of information out of the Kronos. In the case above, the mapping between the Triton and Kronos switch assigns is not 1 to 1 - there are subtle but significant differences.
This is just one of many similar situations I have found, and I'm only a little ways into this.

This lack of documentation really slows down my progress, since I can't work when I'm away from the Kronos.

Does anybody know of any more complete source of information? If not, maybe those of us that are involved in programming can share to get the documentation up to the level of the Triton?

In another thread we have discussed the need for multisample names to develop program mappings. While the names are theoretically available in the Voice Names List, this is in PDF format and it is secured just to make it even harder to use. Why couldn't that same information be made available in a text file or Excel spreadsheet?

Thanks!

I'm doing the same thing and having to resort to on-screen inspection for the time-being. I'll be more than happy to share the information that I do have and any new information I'm able to compile.
I agree, though, that it's quite tedious to have to manually dig up the information.

Best of luck!
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- cynkh -

Hardware:
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Chrutil
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Joined: 21 May 2011
Posts: 194
Location: San Rafael, California
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Same here as well, except this is where the editor shines -
In the editor you can click around in any synths parameters and see the values. Depending on the parameter this could be easy or not, but it probably bets developing next to your synth.
You can install the editor on your development system, since you dont need to have it connected the the K when you run it.

C
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Korg Kronos 88 #444 /3GB, MU modular synth, PPG Wave 2.3, Modal Electronics 002, TTSH, Oberheim Two Voice Pro, Deckard's Dream, Kijimi, MatrixBrute, Access Virus KC, Ensoniq EPS, Korg Microsampler, Behringer Model D, Behringer Pro~1, Roland JP-08, Roland VP-03, Roland JD-08, Roland TR-8, Akai MPC-X, Roland TD-12 V-Drums, Fender Precision Bass, Martin Custom D Guitar, Sterling JP-60 Guitar, PRS Santana SE Guitar (signed), Logic Pro X, Pulsar P900 Series, Arturia V Collection 6 as well as various iPad & soft synths.
Download the Korg Kronos AL-1/Polysix Graphical Editor
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danatkorg
Product Manager, Korg R&D


Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4204
Location: California, USA
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 5:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Missing information in Kronos MIDI implementation? Reply with quote
Developers can contact Korg directly. My email address is dan@korgrd.com.
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Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com
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cynkh
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Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 526
Location: Buffalo, N.Y.
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 7:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Missing information in Kronos MIDI implementation? Reply with quote
danatkorg wrote:
Developers can contact Korg directly. My email address is dan@korgrd.com.

Thank you very much, Dan! Smile
_________________
- cynkh -

Hardware:
Kronos 61, microKORG, MoPho, Rogue, Aira System-1, Aira TB-3, Aira TR-8, MC-202, TB-303, (KMS-30), Juno 6, Alpha-Juno 1 (PG-300), SH-201, MC-09, Virus TI Snow, K2000, MPC-1000, X-Station 25, MultiMix-16FW, Ableton Live Push

Software:
Logic Pro 9, Korg Legacy Collection, Komplete 8, vCollection 3, Sylenth1, microTonic
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timg11
Senior Member


Joined: 04 Jun 2008
Posts: 459
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 8:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Missing information in Kronos MIDI implementation? Reply with quote
danatkorg wrote:
Developers can contact Korg directly. My email address is dan@korgrd.com.


Thanks Dan! - check your Inbox Smile
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