Korg Forums

[RobTky]

Hi there,

I had some old midi files (simple jazz standards) I used with m Karma, and now tried loading them to KRONOS, and noticed sounds do not map correctly.
Piano is usually ok, but drums, bass is mapped to something else and I need to manually change it, guessing which track is what. Not that difficult if the piece is simple, but can get complex with added guitar and other instruments.

Is there any way to help that mapping happen automatically? I do not recall having same problems on KARMA, but that was a while ago. I might have 'forced' some sort of midi mapping. don't remember.
Is there anything like that in KRONOS?

Why do sounds get mapped incorrectly anyway? I would think GM should be quite standard ...?

I also noticed that even if I set them right for one song, going back to frist bar resets some of the instruments ... I would not know where to find/how to edit that in loaded midi file.

Any hints appreciated,

Rob

[AdDeRoo]

Hi

I tend to store/write down which Programs are assigned to which Midi channel in the original file (using PC software), and with that you have a proper start on the Kronos, to see which sounds fit best. Also regularly listen back to the original MIDIfile on a pc or so, or even better, to an original WAV/MP3 recording of the song

For the rest, drums are on Ch 10m, and Kronos has GM drum programs. Bass is typically on Ch.2, piano on Ch.1, and the lead melody on Ch4. Ch.11 has in many cases additional percussion instruments. The rest varies depending on the song.

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Current gear : Korg Kronos 88 (SN 0979) / Nektar LX88+ / Korg PA2X / Kurzweil K2500R / Korg Nanopad2 / Neo Ventilator / Akai EWI USB / Cantabile / Reaper / Cakewalk / Reason / way too many VST's

[RobTky]

Thanks Ad,
I was hoping there is a "force standard GM" kind of setting somewhere to fix it automatically.
Well, ..

[Saxifraga]

Yes, there is. Had this problem myself some time ago.

Go to GLOBAL mode and switch from Korg to GM(2) BankMap.

Load your Song into the sequencer on the DISK page.

Now go into sequencer mode and use the drop down menu.
There is an option to initialize General MIDI.

Your sounds will now be mapped. Play the song.

Hope it helped.
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[KorganizR]

I recently faced the same problems when importing/adapting a midi file in the Kronos myself for the first time. Here's what I did, it takes some time and effort, it worked for me, but I'm not sure if this is the shortest possible approach. I am actually hoping someone else has an easier way of doing this, but anyway here it goes...

[Edit: in the mean time I saw Saxifraga's solution which is a LOT quicker. Thanx ! Note though that if you want to replace the standard GM programs with better sounding Kronos programs, thereby turning the midi file into a Kronos song, then I think there's still value in the steps listed below.]

First of all, like you did, I also noted that when play back again from measure 1, the programs of each track are reset to different programs. This is because apart from the recorded note events in the midi file, there are "program change events" in each track, which change the program used by that track. So whichever program you've selected for a track will typically be changed into the program that is set by the recorded program change event.

(1) I don't have my Kronos at hand, but in the Sequencer you can see these program change events by going to the Track Edit tab and then in the upper right menu selecting "Midi event edit" or something like that. First a dialog box appears in which you can select some options. For now, uncheck all checkboxes except for the one with "program change event" or something like that. Then press OK.

(2) Now you should see all the program change events for that track. Usually there is one at the beginning, e.g. in measure 1 or 2. For simplicity, I am assuming that there is only one such event in every track. There could be more, but this makes things a bit more complicated. I am coming back to that later.

(3) Write down the program number that is part of the program change event, on a piece of paper"

(4) Then delete the program change event by pressing "Cut" and then exit the midi event editor. This means that for this track, no program changes will appear anymore in playback, and you can instead use the Track program on the main tab to specify which program you want to use.

There´s a problem with the program change event: it uses Bank I-A (I think), however to produce the correct sound it should have used Bank GM (in which all GM programs are stored). THIS is the reason why the sounds are played back incorrectly after importing a midi file. The program numbers are correct, but the bank number is incorrect. The midi file intends to use the GM bank, but the Kronos does not use the GM bank. However this is easily fixed:

(5) You now take the program number written down in step (3) and look it up in the GM program bank (if you don't want to leave the Sequencer, you can change the track program by selecting the tracks program bank on the main Play tab). Now you have found the kind of sound that was intended for this track in the midi file. So there's no guesswork anymore. You can really look it up.

(6) At this point you have a choice: use the GM program that the track was intended for, or select an alternative program (from another bank) which sounds better to you than the standard GM sound does. In either case, select that program as being the program for this track. Because you have removed the program change event in the midi event edit in step (4), the program you've selected will not be changed anymore.

(7) It seems like a lot of work, but you have to re-iterate steps (1)-(6) for all tracks that contain note data in the midifile. What I did is to mute all tracks that have not been processed this way yet. So I regularly play back to see if the tracks that I have processed so far are sounding acceptable to me.

(8 ) Obviously: don't forget to do a Save Seq. You should store all this work as a Kronos Song before turning off the Kronos.

Other tips:

(a) While processing all relevant tracks, start with the Drum track. This usually is track 10. Then at least you have some rhythmic context when iterating over all remaining tracks. Instead of choosing a non-GM drumkit program, I would choose for a GM kit here, because it is transposed differently from the other Kronos drumkits. Of course you could choose to change the pitch of the drumtrack instead and use a non-GM drumkit.

(b) In the case that there is more than 1 program change event in a particular track, I chose still to delete the first event (and use the Track program selection instead, to keep things informative in the main Play tab), but subsequent events I altered using the midi event editor. I looked the program number up in the GM bank (like we did in step (5)), and selected a program of liking. I believe you can select a bank as well in the midi event editor, so that should not be a problem.

[Edit, in addition:] (c) By default the imported midi file will not use any insert effects. If you've used the above steps to replace the GM sounds with better sounding Kronos sounds and turning the midi file in a full Kronos song, it's a good idea of also copying the appropriate Effects into the song. You can do this on a track-by-track basis, e.g. for some of the tracks. I believe it's in the upper right menu of the Play tab. Select the program you want to copy the effects from. Be sure to check only "All-Used".

Well, this is my 2 cents . I do hope that someone has a much briefer approach for importing and adapting midi files in the Kronos, but until then, this is the way I do it. Good luck!
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Kronos 61, Korg M1

[escottm01]

I just unpacked my new Kronos and wanted to load a collection of midi songs. They didnt map correctly, drums to keyboards, etc. I came to this forum and read this thread the shouted eureka!!
However, it didnt work for me. (shortcut global method)
I set global to GM, saved settings, restarted machine, checked global setting - yes GM, then loaded a song from my USB drive. Nothing mapped to GM.
Also, program change events are on every track, so if I change the track, without going in and deleting that program change, when I press start, it all reverts back.
I tried several different songs and the same thing.
THESE SAME FILES WOULD IMPORT AND PLAY ON MY TRITON EXTREME.
I am not shouting, just trying to make a point.
What is different?
Does anyone have any suggestions on what to look for?
Looks like I am going to have to go song by song, track by track, delete the program change event and choose the program.
That will be a lot of work.

PS> If I do have to load a song, delete program change from measure 1 of every track, pick the program for every track, etc. Is there an easier - shorter method then KorganizR wrote about? KorganizR's method WORKS for me, and that is great, but it takes a long time and you have to switch back and forth from track editing that program change to setting the program.
OR? Can anyone recommend an external midi editor to do some of this work before loading it in the Korg?

!Thanks and Cheers!

[KorganizR]

Hi escottm01,

I just tried Saxifraga's method and it works 80% for me.

I have two comments that hopefully help you:

#1) From your text, I understand that you did change the GLOBAL setting, but I miss the statement that you also did a "GM initialize" in the sequencer. Don't know if that helps a bit.

#2) In my case, the drums still did not sound correctly. The program change event in the drum track used the GM bank (for normal, non-drum sounds), whereas it should have used the GM(d) drum bank. So for me I only had to change the program change event in the drum track so that it uses the GM(d) bank instead of the GM bank.

After these changes, the midi file played "correctly" for me (although I am not content with the plain GM sounds so I choose to change those anyway and add the Kronos effects).

So only the program change event in the drum track needs to be changed, which is a lot less work than what I've specified in my original reply, where all tracks needed to be edited....

I also do think importing midi files should work 'out of the box' (like you say it worked on the Triton extreme). As far as I can tell right now, this does not seem to be the case on the Kronos.

Still hoping someone has an even better solution, but hopefully the above tips help a bit. Good luck!
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Kronos 61, Korg M1

[escottm01]

Thanks KorganizR,
Taken together, all of the info you posted is very useful.
Since last posting I have processed about 10 or so songs. Some have program changes in the first measure, some do not, some come in with proper drum tracks, some do not.
However, with yours and Saxifraga's methods combined - there is a way to get everything working. it is labor intensive on some songs and then others are fairly "automatic".
So, It is going to be more work than I imagined, but I am making progress now.

Thanks - Scott

[Saxifraga]

[AdDeRoo]

Just something I found out yesterday, and which is not mentioned that clearly in the manuals:

The GM drumkit mappings differ from the Kronos drum mappings.

I found that very often, after loading a GM file in the Kronos sequecer, transposing the drums +12 will allow you to use any of the Kronos drum sets, instead of the GM drumkits provided in Kronos. They sound much better.

Also on the bass sound, the Kronos bass sounds often differ +12 from the GM bass sounds.

There is something on this mentioned on page 42 of latest version of the parameter guide (section 1.3b), but I did not trace that before.

Just finding new things every day....

Have fun..
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Current gear : Korg Kronos 88 (SN 0979) / Nektar LX88+ / Korg PA2X / Kurzweil K2500R / Korg Nanopad2 / Neo Ventilator / Akai EWI USB / Cantabile / Reaper / Cakewalk / Reason / way too many VST's

[escottm01]

That explains a lot.
I have noticed that trying to switch drum kits to a "better sounding" kit = terrible sounding drum parts, so I started just choosing gd(1).
Please explain +12 to me, though.
If I switch gd(1) to the "standard" Korg kit, what is the procedure to make it sound right?
and bass too?

[midinut]

I've got a crapload of free midi files that I've had for years. They are on a jump drive. I plugged it into the Kronos. Is there a way to copy several folders of them off the jump drive and put them on the internal SSD ? It's almost 3am and I can't SEE TFM, much less RTFM on how to do this. Maybe the new editor can help? (ducks for cover)

Funny, most of these free midi files are shite, but every so often one loads in and you go "damn that's nice". Hit or miss. Just with so many, every time I hit DISK, it takes forever to load the folder from the jump drive. I figure it will go faster from the SSD if its possible to move them over as folders and not one by one. That would take forever.

I'm going to bed. Hopefully someone will have mercy on my soul.
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[midinut]

Okay, got up and RTFM'd the Operation Guide. Also reread this thread (now that I'm awake) and have another question in addition to my post above on moving files.

The Op Guide suggests that you do a SAVE ALL when you're done sequencing so that it saves the Song, Programs, Combis, Global, etc. If I do this for EVERY MIDI file I import that's a boatload of SAVE ALL files. If I load up the sequencer with say 20 songs and do a SAVE ALL, will that save ALL 20 songs or just one? I'm gonna go experiment and try it now but wanted to throw it out there before I disappear again. Thanks in advance.
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Korg Kronos 88 ::: Korg M3-73 ::: Yamaha MOXF6 ::: MacBook Pro w/ Cubase 7.5, Logic X & Mainstage + way too many VSTs
Line 6 Variax ::: Line 6 POD X3 Live! ::: Martin Acoustic/Electric ::: Mandolin
www.reverbnation.com/bradmize ::: www.cdbaby.com/bradmize

[escottm01]

When you do Save All OR Save SEQ, it will save all Songs loaded in memory at that time together under your filename.

This is a fact I didnt know until yesterday and have very mixed feelings about.
If you want to "work on" one song and save it back under its filename, you better have only one song loaded into "Songs".

I discovered 8 songs, saved 8 times, under 8 different names.
Guess what I was doing?

IF you dont change programs, combi, effets, etc, then you only need to SAVE Seq (*.sng) and not worry abou tthe other stuff. If you make new sounds and change effects, etc, you can include other options.

Scott

[AdDeRoo]