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WPF M1 to KRONOS Converter
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SanderXpander
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since it's only ever going to be useful to people who already bought a 3k workstation from Korg, I'm not sure I agree entirely. Then again, giving permission to a "random guy" writing software probably isn't going to happen either.
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sunriser111671
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Joined: 17 Jul 2013
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Location: Michigan USA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MoonMusic wrote:
yeah go ahead and use our samples even though we spent all this money protecting them....Unless they do it themselves, they have no control over it and probably won't happen.... Sad ...moon


I really have no interest in "getting" their samples except for development purposes which I would keep to myself. After verifying my software will link correctly to their soundbank and even handle doing the conversion, they could release an EXi or whatever with the converted progs/combis.

Then, of course, people could still use my conversion software for any custom progs/combis they have.

Thoughts?
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MoonMusic
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Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand you don't want the samples included in your software....All I'm saying is good luck getting Korg to green light anything your working on or help you out in the slightest way....Even if you get it working 100%, I'd be surprised if they'd run with it....I can't think of anything they've done in the past that would suggest that they would help you now (yeah, some of you can read between the lines on that one).....Trust me when I say I think it really is cool what your doing and from the screen shots it is exciting if it will work....I just don't know how it's going to come to fruitation unless you do it like they do in the MAME emulator world where you supply the frontend (your program) which is perfectly legal....But then the second part of how that works would be illegal (acquiring the M1 ROM)....I'm not even sure if you owned the legacy software or a hardware M1/r if it would still be legal to download a ROM set...So unless Korg is willing to help you out some how, there is no legal way to do it that I can think of....moon

sunriser111671 wrote:
MoonMusic wrote:
yeah go ahead and use our samples even though we spent all this money protecting them....Unless they do it themselves, they have no control over it and probably won't happen.... Sad ...moon


I really have no interest in "getting" their samples except for development purposes which I would keep to myself. After verifying my software will link correctly to their soundbank and even handle doing the conversion, they could release an EXi or whatever with the converted progs/combis.

Then, of course, people could still use my conversion software for any custom progs/combis they have.

Thoughts?

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sunriser111671
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Latest Update:

I know I stated I might have something ready for download tonight but it's still going to be a few days. I didn't have as much time as I thought I would over the weekend to work on revisions.

However, things are going well. As Sharp alluded to, the VDFs in the Kronos are, quite frankly, a bitch to recreate from the M1! Specifically, the VDF Velocity and Keyboard Track time modulation. But, I believe I found the magic conversion formula to get them working (it involves reversing polarity and dividing but it seems to be doing the job).

It looks like I'll still need until this weekend to do more work and have something ready for download.

Thank you!
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michelkeijzers
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great to see you are making progress.

Initially I also had the idea to make conversions from one synth to another but as you know it's far from trivial.

In case I (or somebody else) supports the Korg M1 in PCG Tools, your application could be a very nice combi with mine.
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sunriser111671
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, the first alpha version of Klonos M1 Converter software (I changed the name) is complete:

UPDATE: Link Updated (10/31/13)

http://www.flexmediasoftware.com/index.php/downloads

I have also uploaded a video tutorial to Youtube at

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejh-bUZhqh4&feature=player_detailpage

I really hope people will download and try out the software to see how close the parameters match the two keyboards.

Please, send me your feedback to help make this software even better!

Thank you and enjoy!


Last edited by sunriser111671 on Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Francois
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Klonos ? As in cloning/kronos ?

Thanks for your efforts.
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Kronoscopie, tout sur le Kronos en français

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Last edited by Francois on Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:56 pm; edited 2 times in total
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SanderXpander
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before I dive in, which possibilities do I get for conversion? Do I need an actual M1 and do a patch dump? Can I read Sysex files? Can I use or do I need Legacy Collection Digital?
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sunriser111671
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Francois,

Yes, you got it! Clone-Os converter. Pretty catchy, eh?

SanderXpander,

View the video tutorial to answer those questions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejh-bUZhqh4&feature=player_detailpage

In short, you can open SysEx files or do a data dump directly from the M1. The only use for Legacy Collection is to sample the multisamples you will need in the Kronos.

More important notes:

This is a Windows-only program (XP,Vista,7 32 or 64 bit). It requires .NET 4 (the installer will automatically detect and prompt you to DL if necessary)

You could run this program in a Windows VM in MacIntosh or Linux (Not tested yet) but it probably will not do the dump to Kronos directly. There is an option to save as SYX file and copy that to your host OS and use a Sysex progam to do the dump to Kronos.

Thanks!
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X-Trade
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the samples, have you considered just building an 'equivalents' table of which M1 sample selections most closely relate to which Kronos factory ROM samples?
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sunriser111671
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update:

Welp, I found a bug already in my initial version (program would crash if send/save was performed without a Kronos User Bank selected).

Here is the updated version (0.5.1):

http://www.flexmediasoftware.com/M1ToKronos051Setup.exe

X-trade,

In fact, yes, I did try to see if there were Kronos program names that had "M1" in them. I found 2: Piano and Organ.

As far as doing an exhaustive, pain-staking search of ALL Kronos programs to find an approximate to the M1, I have no interest in that.

If someone else wants to provide me a list, I would consider integrating it into my software, but it would almost defeat the purpose, since those programs would probably require major reworking of the parameters to match the alternate multisamples and it wouldn't really sound like an M1

Thanks!
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X-Trade
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was really talking about the multisamples, not the programs. I believe a lot of them should already be present and/or have more modern equivalents.

I wouldn't mind doing or at least this but will need a reference point because I don't have an M1. Not sure if the M1LE that came with my nanoPad would have everything I need?

Also, given the timelines of these synths, I think the Wavestation multisample bank already present in Kronos would definitely be a good place to start.
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Current Gear: Kronos 61, RADIAS-R, Volca Bass, ESX-1, microKorg, MS2000B, R3, Kaossilator Pro +, MiniKP, AX3000B, nanoKontrol, nanoPad MK II,
Other Mfgrs: Moog Sub37, Roland Boutique JX03, Novation MiniNova, Akai APC40, MOTU MIDI TimePiece 2, ART Pro VLA, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40.
Past Gear: Korg Karma, TR61, Poly800, EA-1, ER-1, ES-1, Kawai K1, Novation ReMote37SL, Boss GT-6B
Software: NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, Ableton Live 9. Apple OSX El Capitan on 15" MacBook Pro
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sunriser111671
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I was really talking about the multisamples, not the programs.


Yes, sorry, I mean the multisamples, which is still a lot!

Quote:
Not sure if the M1LE that came with my nanoPad would have everything I need?


As far as I know, it does. If what I read is correct, it's the same as the standard Digital Legacy Collection version as far as multisamples.

My suggestion would be to load up a blank User Card Program slot of the M1LE (the ones that say "Init Prog") and cycle through the multisamples and compare them to the Kronos multisamples using an "Init Prog" as well. That way you get the multisamples without any filtering, amp, FX, or pitch coloring done to them. Believe me, if you come across exact or near exact matches to cover the majority of the M1 originals, I will include them as default selections for my software!

Quote:
the Wavestation multisample bank already present in Kronos would definitely be a good place to start


One thing at a time. The wavestation is a different animal from the M1. Hmmm, a WaveStation conversion program in the future.........?
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sunriser111671
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, it's time to play Name That M1 Original.

Here is a link that has 2 Universe samples with FX disabled. One is from an actual M1. The other is done on the Kronos after I downloaded the parameters with my Klonos M1 Converter program and added the raw multisamples:

https://soundcloud.com/flexmediasoft/sample1

(Both samples will play)

Which one is the REAL M1 program, Sample 1 or Sample 2?
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SanderXpander
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sample 2 is the Kronos, the attack and the filter envelope are different (unless you modified "universe" on the M1).
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