Sample Problems

LZ · Post by LZ » Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:26 pm

I don't know if I'm just an idiot or what, but I keep having all kinds of problems and I'm really pulling my hair out.

It seems like every time I add new samples and then try to save them, things get screwed up. At different times, I seem to have 2 different things happening.

Sometimes, after I save them, when I load the new KSC they no longer line up with my programs. Usually what seems to be happening is the first few multisamples will duplicate so that their in there multiple times and then it throws everything else off.

The other thing that happens, which is much more frustrating, is this...
I load everything so I have all my samples and everything works. I'll do a new sample, create a new program, everything works - all samples, all programs. Save All. Next time, load the new .KSC, and the only samples there are the LAST ones I did. All the old ones are nowhere to be found. Maybe because I had loaded the _userbank previously so when I saved all they didn't save with the new samples? I don't know. This whole sample file system saving and loading confuses the hell out of me and never seems to work right.

Yuma · Post by **Yuma** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:46 pm

LZ wrote:The other thing that happens, which is much more frustrating, is this...
I load everything so I have all my samples and everything works. I'll do a new sample, create a new program, everything works - all samples, all programs. Save All. Next time, load the new .KSC, and the only samples there are the LAST ones I did. All the old ones are nowhere to be found. Maybe because I had loaded the _userbank previously so when I saved all they didn't save with the new samples? I don't know. This whole sample file system saving and loading confuses the hell out of me and never seems to work right.

Let's say you have these two files:
* X.KSC
* X_userbank.KSC

When loading the X.KSC file you load your samples into sample memory.
When loading the X_userbank.KSC file you only load a set of references to the samples in the X.KSC file, not the samples themself.
When saving your samples, it only saves what's in your sample memory.

As far as I understand it's like this:
1) Load the X.KSC file if you want to edit your samples or add new samples to your KSC file.
2) After you're done editing, save your sample set. This will create/overwrite both X.KSC and X_userbank.KSC.
3) When you want to use the new/edited samples for streaming from the SSD, load the X_userbank.KSC.

LZ · Post by LZ » Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:07 pm

OK, so if I understand this right, then Suppose I have a group of samples I'm using that I've saved previously as x.KSC, and I'm loading ._userbank.KSC so I can stream. If I'm going to add new samples and want to save everything, should I then FIRST load x.KSC so that everything's actually in sample memory (not just references), THEN do my new samples, THEN save all? It just seems like when I add new samples and save, it should keep the references to SSD and add the new ones to it.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:14 pm

If you want to add new samples to an existing userbank, yes, you need to load the "regular" KSC, add them to that, and then save with the same name (overwriting your previous userbank file). Make sure you actually add/append the new samples, and don't "clear all" when loading!

LZ · Post by LZ » Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:30 pm

OK, well that's I think where I'm running into another problem. If I append and samples are already in there, but also in the file I've saved, then it adds them again and then the samples don't like up with the programs anymore....at least I think that's maybe what's contributing to the other problem, so I started doing clear all.

Basically, I just want all my samples saved in one file, and when I load it, I want everything to be there. It seems like once I get everything working, it's fine until I try to add some new ones, then things get all jacked up. But I think I understand how I just lost a bunch of my samples by only loading the _userbank before adding my new ones.

hammondcuni · Post by **hammondcuni** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:49 pm

LZ Im with you on this. On my M3 i was so used to just adding whatever sample and then do a "save all and bam" I was done. With my Kronos not so easy . Same exact thing you are dealing with. If someone could make a video on this it would be nice.

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:54 pm

I think when loading with 'append' then the loading order is very important. Because samples in programs are referenced with a simple index number (userbanks get around this by introducing separate namespaces for each set.)
Also sometimes the ordering gets thrown if you have saved or are expecting/not expecting the blank default sample that is always loaded there.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:20 pm

You can do it the exact same way on the Kronos as it was on the M3. You just won't have streaming then.

ed_f · Post by **ed_f** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:30 pm

hammondcuni wrote:LZ Im with you on this. On my M3 i was so used to just adding whatever sample and then do a "save all and bam" I was done. With my Kronos not so easy . Same exact thing you are dealing with. If someone could make a video on this it would be nice.

As I remember this was true on the Kronos before we got streaming. As mentioned that is what has really changed here.

I would suggest for those that are confused to read page 156 of the Operation Guide. I think it spells out what is going on pretty clearly including:

• Use Sampling Mode to create and edit your Samples and Multisamples, or to import sounds from Akai and SoundFont 2.0 formats.
• When you’re done editing, load the data as a User Sample Bank in order to access Virtual Memory.
• At any time, you can load the sample data into Sampling Mode again, to edit the existing data or add more Samples or Multisamples.

LZ · Post by LZ » Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:48 pm

OK, I think over multiple iterations things have gotten jacked up between what's in the .KSC vs what's in the _userbank.KSC, and here's why I think that....

I figured I need to rebuild everything by loading what I did not lose from the .KSC, then append with some of the samples I had backed up, or build new multisamples from scratch to get them back in there, point the existing programs to the samples, then save all - that was my plan.

OK, so I loaded the .KSC file and did a clear all. Only one multisample is in there, but yet SOME of my other programs samples still work, but not all. So it seems like some are maybe still referenced from the _userbank.KSC, but did not load into memory when I loaded the .KSC of the same name.

I guess maybe I need to dive into the _userbank.KSC directory, find the folder with the multisamples, and load them? Can I do that?

burningbusch · Post by **burningbusch** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 3:16 pm

Maybe it would be helpful to create a main KSC that contains all the samples you need, test it so that you're assured everything works properly. Now when adding new samples, add those to a new KSC. This keeps main untouched. You can load both easily by using either:

1) GLOBAL==>BASIC==>KSC AUTO-LOAD and selecting the KSCs you want loaded at startup OR
2) DISK==>SAVE==>SAVE SAMPLING DATA using the LINKS TO EXs & USER SAMPLE BANKS to create a single unifying KSC.

Busch.

LZ · Post by LZ » Sat Nov 16, 2013 3:29 pm

I'm using this for 2 projects - one with no sequencing that is my main 5pc band. I have a KSC in autoload for that.

My duo is all sequences and a bunch of different samples I've been saving songs and samples in it's own directory, and manually loading those after startup.

What's perplexing is that there have been times I've tried to load the _userbank.ksc, and not all the samples are there, then I'll load the .ksc and they are all there. I've browsed them in disk mode and it seems like they don't always save the same samples (or pointers to samples) in both places.

But yes, I think I need to basically start over, clear everything out of memory, recreate all of them (#@!%#@$!), and save in a whole new directory, new filename, and pick up from there. I've sort of done that twice already, but I guess it's time to do it again.

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 3:30 pm

I think one point to remember, Is that when you load into sampling mode, your programs won't be pointing to those samples (if you've programmed them to use userbanks).

Because they will be set to point to that specific userbank's ID (what I mentioned earlier about seperated namespaces), rather than to a location in sampling RAM.

If you're working on samples it might be an idea to unload everything else first - userbanks and otherwise.
And do the program mode work only once you've loaded the userbank file later.

burningbusch · Post by **burningbusch** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:04 pm

LZ wrote: My duo is all sequences and a bunch of different samples I've been saving songs and samples in it's own directory, and manually loading those after startup.

You probably know this but to clarify, a sequence can contain up to 200 songs and samples within sequences can be streamed from SSD rather than brought into RAM.

Busch.

LZ · Post by LZ » Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:05 pm

OK, so I just browse through in disk mode and confirmed what I expected.

Originally I had been saving things in a folder called 2Cents. At one point I wanted to make sure I didn't lose anything else and saved in a new folder called AT1.

So in the latest saving of my samples, since I mistakenly only loaded AT1_userbank.KSC instead of AT1.KSC before creating my new sample, the only sample in AT1.KSC is now the last one I created. However, another patch with samples is still working. I went to AT1_userbank.KSC and browsed in disk mode. Besides what's in AT1.KSC, there is an additional folder called 2Cents that has the samples for the other patch that's still working. They are not showing up in memory, but obviously are streaming. So in the last save, they remained in AT1_userbank.KSC, but are not in AT1.KSC.

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