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Korg Pa600 with midi controler
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Nemik
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:11 am    Post subject: Korg Pa600 with midi controler Reply with quote

I just got Korg Pa600 and I'm wonder if is possible to use Akai Professional MPK49 or any midi controller with korg, not only as extra keyboard but also to control some sounds parameters like volume, and/or MFXs effects like for example cutoff filter in real time playing?
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Eduardo_Arg
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Nemik:

I use my PA600 with ( in my personal opinion ) the best midi controller:
CME UF 70.-
With it i can control everything, parts volume, expression, efects.-
AKAI is a good invest, but too much expensive than CME.-
CME is heavy and well manufactured; i'm a pianist player and keyboard feels really good.- By the way for what i know AKAI has 61 or 88 notes.-
CME UF come's on 61, 76 and 88 note.-
I bought 76, becase in very few cases i use higher octave, and in that case i just only need to transpose those notes.-
A suggestion: buy only new unit not used.-
With regards. Eduardo
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Nemik
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thx Eduardo

I already own Akai MPK49. Smile
Just need buy power supply, I found out for using Midi connections has to be self powered, not by USB.
Just wasn't sure if Korg be working with.
If you can use other controller, my must too Smile
I'm not much pianist, I care more for other controls on board.
Only reason I got 49 keys version not 25 is because a lot more knobs and sliders.
3 bank with 8 sliders, 8 knobs, 8 button (switches) giving me 24,24,24 fully assignable controls + 4 banks with 12 pads each.
I think and hope if I can hook up all with Korg Pa600 , Korg become 400% more powerful Arranger.
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Nemik
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got power supply, I connected to korg and seems to work, but I couldn't find in manual anything how I can control performers control, I try to use midi controller to control separately Fills I don't like in pa600 they together with variations.
Any Tips?
If is possible? Question Question
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Nemik
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy I find it !!
Tnx to our guru Thoraldus
Quote:
You can remotely select the various Style Elements on the Pa600, by sending it Program Change messages on the Control channel. Fills 1-4 are Program Change 87-90 respectively.

I follow his advice and tested all controls.
This is what I find:
Program Change:
    CTR#64 = STS1
    CTR#65 = STS2
    CTR#66 = STS3
    CTR#67 = STS4
    CTR#80 = Intro 1
    CTR#81 = Intro 2
    CTR#82 = Intro 3
    CTR#83 = VAR 1
    CTR#84 = VAR 2
    CTR#85 = VAR 3
    CTR#86 = VAR 4
    CTR#87 = Fill 1
    CTR#88 = Fill 2
    CTR#89 = Fill 3
    CTR#90 = Fill 4
    CTR#91 = Break
    CTR#92 = Ending 1
    CTR#93 = Ending 2
    CTR#94 = Ending 3
    CTR#95 = Fade In/Out
    CTR#96 = STS Mode
    CTR#97 = Auto Fill
    CTR#98 = Memory
    CTR#100 = Manual Bass
    CTR#101 = Tempo Lock
    CTR#103 = Start/Stop

Rest of them ... I don't know ... I'll keep trying to figure out. I wish to know which control Pads.
Also I tried Control Change . for this you can look it in User Manual at page 316.
Tip: Set Program Change controls on different channel that global keys and Control Change in midi controller and then match them in global Korg PA600 in global Section under "Midi In Channels" .
In "Midi In Controls" maybe you like turn off "Track Mute Active". That's give you possibility to play Track which is muted in korg.
I did set keys and program controls on channel 1A and Program Change switches on channels 3A, then in korg Global/Midi In channels ch01 to Upper 3 and ch03 to Control.
After finish configuration don't forgot to save Midi Preset ( you got 1 empty bank).

That's all for now.
Good luck, have fun... I know I will.
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nemik wrote:
This is what I find: ...

You can do much more with Pa-Keys.
I am using a Pa500 with a simple controller Fame KC49 as you do with Pa600+CME/Akai. Additionally i am using two pedals connecting to KC49, one of them to use the Pa500 for polyphonic Aftertouch, the second one to use for parameters (filter/lfo/amp) necessary to be temorary-frozen at recent values like done with synths.

It is possible also to control sound parameters and/or MFXs effects in real time playing.
It is possible to start and stop Rotosound and change between slow/fast and you can control the roto-speed. But first it is necessary to prepare your sounds with soundedit, as you need a AMS (alternate modulation-source) in your sounds as receiver of your controller-sent parameters you prefer.

You can change songbook-entries, performances and styles per midi, but you also can use midi-events sent by manual-changing of songbook-entries to start external displays for text/pdf/karaoke etc.
use MSB=0, LSB=stylebank(0-15), PrgChg=Style-Nr(0-31) to change your styles per control-channel.
use MSB=1, LSB=PerformanceBbank(0-15), PrgChg=Performance-Nr(0-15) to change your performances per control-channel.

use (examples) following SysExs to change your Songbook (before unlock filterparameter sysex):
f0 42 7f 60 bf 63 02 bf 62 40 bf 06 00 bf 26 01 f7 -- > songbook-Nr 1
f0 42 7f 60 bf 63 02 bf 62 40 bf 06 00 bf 26 03 f7 -- > songbook-Nr 3
f0 42 7f 60 bf 63 02 bf 62 40 bf 06 63 bf 26 0a f7 -- > songbook-Nr 9910

f0 = beginn SysEx; 42 7f 60 = ID-SysEx for Korg Pa-Keyboard; bf 63 02 = Controller Ch16/NRPN/MSB; bf 62 40 = Controller Ch16/NRPN/LSB; bf 06 00 = Controller Ch16/DataMSB/Value; bf 26 00 = Controller Ch16/DataLSB/Value; f7 = end SysEx.

also shortened Sysexs are possibile (without repeating controll-cHannels): f0 bf 63 02 62 40 06 55 26 32 f7 --> songbook-Nr 8850 (hex55 = dez88, hex32=dez50).

***

And it is possible also to control each track of your SMFs with specials SysExHeaders, containing parameters for volume, mute-status, effects, equalizers etc. but this SysExHeaders seems to be secrets of Korg and necessary to be analysied by users.

Take an existing SMF, load it to the built-in-sequencer of your Pa-Keyboard and rewrite the SMF. If you now will find some additional SysExs in the header of the SMF beginning like:
F0 7E 7F 09 01 F7; F0 7E 7F 09 01 F7; F0 42 7F 60 00 01 00 05 00 .... you found your korgspecific sysex-header with informations for tracks, effects, equalizer etc.

if you are interesting to analyze that sysexs, send me an pm of that smf with sysex-header-strings - maybe most of them i analyzed for pa500 would be the same of your keyboard.
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Nemik
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for updating my knowledge.

Quote:
you found your korgspecific sysex-header with informations for tracks, effects, equalizer etc.


which midi editor I need to use to see sysex-header?

Can I use Expression pedal to control parameters like Global filter Cutoff ?

Nemik
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Nemik
Korg Pa600, Novation UltraNova, Akai Professional MPK49 , Alesis QX-49, Alesis QX-25, APC25 Keys, Launchpad MK2
MOTU Midi Express XT, FCB1010, Behringer X2222 USB, M-Track Plus
Fl Studio 12, Ableton Live 9 Suite.
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Nemik
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Correct!!
Quote:
Can I use Expression pedal to control parameters like Global filter Cutoff ?


I meant thru Midi controller, Now I can assign to control change #74 and control cutoff current sound, but I'm wonder it is the way to control Globally in one of Masters Effect.

Nemik
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Korg Pa600, Novation UltraNova, Akai Professional MPK49 , Alesis QX-49, Alesis QX-25, APC25 Keys, Launchpad MK2
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nemik wrote:
... which midi editor I need to use to see sysex-header?
Can I use Expression pedal to control parameters like Global filter Cutoff ?

If you never used tools for working with sysexs or you are not familiar with Hex-Viewer that is hard to describe. a simple tool (freeware of a Yamaha-freak) is PSRUTi with a built-in-section to view sysexs. i use very old software-tools like cakewalk (or hex-viewers like informatic-freaks do), but there is a lot of free-software to view and handle sysexs. if using psruti without experience be carefully, as this software - if you do not configure - likes to overwrite your SMFs with yamaha-specific sysexs to be used with XG-modules.

I never heared about existing Global-Filter-Cutoff, but you can use midi-standard-events like cc71 (harmonic content) and cc74 (brightness). unfortunately expression-pedals (sending cc11) do not send that controller-numbers, so i use my cheap fame-kc49 with two simple standard-pedals (only with built-in-potentiometers) programmed to send cc71 and cc74 (or any midi-event i want to send for special applications).

PS: to know what events you can change, its advantageous to read the Midi-Implementation-Chart of your midi-device.
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nemik wrote:
... wonder it is the way to control Globally in one of Masters Effect ..


Since midi-rules was made that is a way to use channel-messages for midi-devices and that is nothing specific of effects, but to control the soundengine of a mididevice.

if a mididevice is able to receive channell-messages like midi-controller-events like
- Bank Select (MSB, LSB), Modulations, Data Entry MSB, Data Entry LSB, Volume, Expression, Panpot, A/C FX Send, B/D FX Send, Damper, Sostenuto, Soft, Portamento On/Off, Portamento Time , Harmonic Content, EG time (Release, Attack), Brightness, Decay Time, Vibrato Rate, Depth, Delay, NRPN (LSB, MSB), RPN (LSB, MSB), All sounds off, Reset all controllers -
do not wonder why - use it because that is MIDI.
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Nemik
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
you are not familiar with Hex-Viewer that is hard to describe


This is why I'm here on forum Smile
I like to learn all about, I'm familiar with computer languages, so I'm sure I can go more deep, I know is challenging, but here I'm not alone.
I know people like you will help me to understand.
BTW thank you for info which software I can use, already download PSRUTi .
Quote:
if using psruti without experience be carefully, as this software - if you do not configure - likes to overwrite your SMFs with yamaha-specific sysexs to be used with XG-modules.


I do always backup with everything, even if I'm positive I am doing right way, software is never perfect and especially computers. Smile

Nemik
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Nemik
Korg Pa600, Novation UltraNova, Akai Professional MPK49 , Alesis QX-49, Alesis QX-25, APC25 Keys, Launchpad MK2
MOTU Midi Express XT, FCB1010, Behringer X2222 USB, M-Track Plus
Fl Studio 12, Ableton Live 9 Suite.
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Nemik
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You can change songbook-entries, performances and styles per midi, but you also can use midi-events sent by manual-changing of songbook-entries to start external displays for text/pdf/karaoke etc.
use MSB=0, LSB=stylebank(0-15), PrgChg=Style-Nr(0-31) to change your styles per control-channel.
use MSB=1, LSB=PerformanceBbank(0-15), PrgChg=Performance-Nr(0-15) to change your performances per control-channel.


Did you ever came across your experience how midi controller can trigger Pads ?
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Nemik
Korg Pa600, Novation UltraNova, Akai Professional MPK49 , Alesis QX-49, Alesis QX-25, APC25 Keys, Launchpad MK2
MOTU Midi Express XT, FCB1010, Behringer X2222 USB, M-Track Plus
Fl Studio 12, Ableton Live 9 Suite.
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danolr7
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi.. Just a question.. Do you have what is the Midi messages to turn On and Off the uppers and the lower.. Thanks for your help!
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Daniel López Rincón.. From Chiapas, México.
I'm dealing with a lovely Pa3x and with the English writing too..
"Viva la Musica and priest Christ"
So thanks for your patience and help, I really appreciate it!
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Nemik
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

danolr7 wrote:
Hi.. Just a question.. Do you have what is the Midi messages to turn On and Off the uppers and the lower.. Thanks for your help!

No, I don't.
This is something something cannot be control by external device, at least I never hear about.
Turning On/Off is control for keybed not for instrument, means even if you turn off for uppers/lower still is accessible by external device, switch is not effecting sound.
I hope that's make sense. Wink
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Nemik
Korg Pa600, Novation UltraNova, Akai Professional MPK49 , Alesis QX-49, Alesis QX-25, APC25 Keys, Launchpad MK2
MOTU Midi Express XT, FCB1010, Behringer X2222 USB, M-Track Plus
Fl Studio 12, Ableton Live 9 Suite.
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Eduardo_Arg
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Nemik:

A good SMF / Midi / Kar files editor is ANVIL STUDIO.- It have's a freeware version that will let you experiment any change on midi file.- I'm using since las 5 year and i could change EVERYTHING.-
A friend of my use an excellent midi controler (in tandem with his Maudio 88 ES), is Behringer BCF 2000; with it he controls all deep edition of his Korg PA600.- By the way he use only this configuration.-
Another option is a keyboard controller AKAI 88 notes, but is really too expensive (for a controller).-
My suggestion is, first download user's manuals and check if the hardware reports what you need.-
With regards. Eduardo
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