KP3+ MIDI Sync

boreg · Post by **boreg** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:33 am

Hi all,

My name is Boris, a few days ago I bought a brand new KP3+. It's a cool gadget, but rather quickly I discovered that it doesn't sync properly to MIDI clock - the sampled loops are OK at first, but drift out of sync within a few minutes.

After googling "KP3 MIDI sync" I found some posts from 2007 and earlier complaining about the same problem (including a reply from a Korg rep that they are "looking into the issue"). I realize that if the problem was solved by now, a solution would be found online. But ATM I'm in denial and refuse to believe there's no hope

So, is there really no improvement on this front after 7 years? No firmware update that fixes it (or at least a promise of one), or a suggested workaround? Did anybody contact Korg regarding this issue?

rammstein · Post by **rammstein** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 7:29 am

i've had mine for about 6 weeks, but i have not encountered that "drift". what do you sync it to? i have mine synced to a kaossilator pro+.

boreg · Post by **boreg** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:46 am

My MIDI clock master is MPC1000. It's a rock solid clock source, my other gear syncs to it perfectly.

The idea was to have sampled phrases playing along with an external sequencer (MPC1000 in this case), but the sampled loop gradually loses sync with the sequencer. Do you have a MIDI sequencer that can loop a phrase? (I'm not too familiar with Kaossilator, don't know if it can do that).

rammstein · Post by **rammstein** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:56 pm

the kaossilator pro+ is a phrase/sample looper. my kp3+ has always been in sync with it. but i've only had both devices for a few weeks. i'm not sure if they have a tendency to drift or get "confused" on occasions.

maybe i just haven't experienced it yet.

boreg · Post by **boreg** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:41 pm

AFAIK the Kaossilator doesn't loop MIDI, only audio - if that's true, it doesn't apply to my question. If you can make a simple test with a drum machine or any other device with MIDI clock output, I'm curious how it works for you. If not - never mind, thanks anyway!

rammstein · Post by **rammstein** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 6:49 am

yes, i sync the kp3+ with the midi clock of the kaossilator pro+.

i'm not sure if you've tried this... i would suggest setting the midi filters on your kp3+ so that it will only be receiving midi clock signals. all other messages like sysex, note, etc, should be turned-off. maybe (just maybe) the akai is sending other messages that "confuse" your kp3+? i'm not an expert, but it might just work.

boreg · Post by **boreg** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:20 am

Thanks for the suggestion rammstein, will try that.

rammstein · Post by **rammstein** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:28 am

let us know how it turns out.

boreg · Post by **boreg** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 2:36 pm

Tried it yesterday. Not surprisingly, it didn't help.

I sampled 2 bars of metronome from MPC1000 and kept it running. At first, the MPC and the KP were in sync, but after a couple of minutes, there was noticeable flam between the two metronomes. Strangely, trying to manually re-align the KP actually made the matters worse (threw it off by half a beat).

boreg · Post by **boreg** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:24 pm

To summarize:
- Even with this fault, the KP3 is still a cool device. I didn't buy it primarily as a MIDI-synchronized looper, just thought it's a nice feature to have, one that opens a bunch of creative possibilities.
- It's a shame that Korg's implementation makes this feature unusable, cause it seems like it's 99% there.
- I'm going to ask Korg about it, but I'm not holding my breath - judging by the results of my Google search and the overwhelming response to this thread, Korg is not under heavy pressure from users to fix this.

Thank you rammstein for trying to help!

Spheric El · Post by **Spheric El** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 8:10 pm

Hi @boreg ,
I just read your post,how's it going,are you still trying?
Let me tell you the midi clock basically doesn't work how you would want it with syncing sample loops and ext sequencers .yes such a shame. I had bought a (cheap) 2nd KP for the extra 4 loops when I discovered this..
There is a convoluted work round though.
Forget the KP midi clock- dont use it. The loops always stay in time with themselves if sampled at the same tempo (they drift if sampled at diff tempos),two KPs will stay locked. So what you need is some other sequencer that syncs to an analogue sync signal but kicks out midi (-converts to midi). I use a Monotribe with midi conversion but the new Electibe 2 will do this aswell.If you have one ,you can sample a sync signal into your KP3 ,either
-1:after the event ie once your recorded your sample jam to multi track(DAW) or
-2:record your sync sample to an external playback device for say 15 mins ..
Then stream that to your analogue device while jamming -for rock solid midiclock sync. The latter allows simultaneous playback of KP loops and external midi clock sources.
To clarify : you are sampling an analogue sync signal to your KP at given tempo.its like a set of 16 or 8 clicks,that is then fed into a sync in socket of Monotribe.this then kicks out a midi clock at KPs tempo,tight.
Worth having a Monotribe anyway, but it needs the midi mod ,while the E2 has this clock conversion built in- by the looks anyway- I havn't tested the E2.
Hope this helps buddy (and makes sense)as the KP samples is such a good way to create.

boreg · Post by **boreg** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:55 pm

Hi El,

I've re-read your post several times and still don't understand the idea. The KP3 doesn't have sub-outputs that the sync signal could be sent to, and if the sync goes to the main outputs, how can I at the same time use the KP3 for its' intended purpose?

At any rate, this workaround doesn't suite me for several reasons. I have a hardware setup with MPC1000 as the master sequencer, and I'd really like not to change that. If I have projects with different tempos, will I have to load a new "sync" loop for each, making sure to remember which is the correct one? This seems really inconvenient.

Besides, I like to play live - the idea was to capture loops to KP3 and change patterns on MPC while they play - this would allow me to make smooth transitions between patterns, which is very tricky to do on the MPC alone. So anything that requires prior recording to a DAW is a no-go for me.

And finally, I'm not too keen on spending more money and buying more stuff for a convoluted workaround for something that simply doesn't work properly.

What I should try is simply reversing the roles and slaving the MPC to KP3 by MIDI. I'll have to manually set the correct tempo on KP3, but if it works, it will be good enough for jamming.

Anyway, I appreciate your wish to help and detailed explanation.
All the best

Spheric El · Post by **Spheric El** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:29 pm

Hi Boris.
Yes ,tricky for live but if you stick to one tempo it's ok.
You need to sample on the KP a click track at given tempo, then pre-record this to an external play device. It could be a CD or Mp3 ,with a continuous signal, then play this back to a sync in on the Monotribe/E2 ,which can then send a stable midi clock to your MPC.
The midi clock on the KP3 just doesn't sync well with its own loops- train crash at 5mins onwards no matter if its external or internal. I spent months trying and would love a better method.
Maybe it's more convenient with no clock, just jam..but don't use the KP midi clock for its audio loops.
Good luck ,whatever you decide.

boreg · Post by **boreg** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:18 pm

Hi El,

Thanks, now your method is perfectly clear to me.

So, you're saying that audio and MIDI on KP3 are out of sync with each other, regardless of KP3 being clock master or slave? That's a bummer.

Spheric El · Post by **Spheric El** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:04 pm

Yeah - it did seem to work better as master (Int) but still completely unreliable from 5 to 12 minutes in (it would be apparent).
It is a shame -sounds like you've discovered how nice it is to jam tracks with those loops on an off freestyle- much better than triggering them from their start via midi.The latter would stay in time ,but its not the same- no half way through loop starts or freestyles.
You could have a set of different tempos stripped out onto CDs ,like time code, for live use- but with a Tribe.The new Electribe does look nice and can act as a mega effect unit in itself and the Monotribe is a lovely machine too...