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The new Korg Havian 30 (88-note PA300??)
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karmathanever
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:29 am    Post subject: The new Korg Havian 30 (88-note PA300??) Reply with quote

See:
http://www.korgpa.com/products/pianos/havian-30/korg-havian-30-information.html

Well I so hope this is not another PA588!!!!
Whilst owning the great PA2XPro, I strongly recommended the PA588 to a friend (piano teacher). I was really disappointed and felt bad for him when I actually got to play it. He sold it and even put up with less keys (bought a 76-key board).

The only small positive about the PA588 was that it had a handful of very nice and unique styles.

Cheers

Pete Very Happy
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Asena
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What kind of styles?

Where can i find that?
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Marcus2222
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Grand and Upright Pianos with String Resonance including Classical/Pop/Jazz/Rock versions, Harpsichord, Tine & Reed Electric Pianos, Clav and Organ...........Great European Hammer-Action feel"

Pete,

Thanks for posting this. I'm assuming it's more of a piano with arranger features. I was looking at the Yamaha and Casio pianos, but this might be even better if the "piano feel" is real.

Here's hoping I can find one of these in the store now.

Marcus
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Bachus
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marcus2222 wrote:
"Grand and Upright Pianos with String Resonance including Classical/Pop/Jazz/Rock versions, Harpsichord, Tine & Reed Electric Pianos, Clav and Organ...........Great European Hammer-Action feel"

Pete,

Thanks for posting this. I'm assuming it's more of a piano with arranger features. I was looking at the Yamaha and Casio pianos, but this might be even better if the "piano feel" is real.

Here's hoping I can find one of these in the store now.

Marcus


Its listed under piano´s on Krog US website... more like a stagepiano with arranger features.. The piano sounds are also ,more advanced then the PA series piano sounds....

But then on top of that, its build on the PA engine of good old technollogy. I would place it somewhere between the PA300 and the PA600 as it does have a chord sequencer, but no expansion memmory
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Fransman
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Successor of the PA588.

It's a PA600 transformed into a piano.

I think it looks much, much better than PA588 though.

It's good that Korg provides this in a 88 key version for all of the trained/skilled pianists out there who want to play with arranger functions.

Now the successor to the PA3X must be on its way: all of the other 'old range' PA's have had their upgrades.
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karmathanever
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Asena wrote:
What kind of styles?
Where can i find that?

Hi Asena
My friend & I only discovered this when we had the PA2XPro and PA588 together. The unique styles on the PA588 were factory styles with the "same" names as styles on the PA2XPro BUT they were different. Can't remember how many but there quite a few. We exchanged styles when we discovered this so he had all the PA2XPro styles and I had all the PA588. It was just a matter of sorting out those which were identical and those which were different.

It would be great if we could create a repository of ALL the models' factory styles - if my memory serves me correctly, Rikkisbears attempted this quite a while ago but I don't think was able to complete it - can't remember the details.
PA2Xpro and PA800 and PA588 all had some different factory styles as does PA3X PA900 PA600 and PA300 (probably PA3XLE too).

Cheers

Pete Very Happy
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Dikikeys
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I can never understand is why Korg want to pair the 88 note keyboard with their lowest level PA arranger...

One imagines that anyone needing a full 88 is something of a more 'expert' player, with 'expert' needs (to a certain degree). How frustrating it must be to find that the only thing Korg thinks you need is a beginner level arranger! To know that there are two MUCH better arrangers out there from Korg that you can't have in an 88 configuration...

I would have thought the PA900 was the perfect engine to add to the piano, as a blend of power and affordability.

But hey, maybe I'm wrong... maybe pianists DON'T need a high quality arranger! Rolling Eyes Twisted Evil
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liongold
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:27 pm    Post subject: havian Reply with quote

Nice try Korg.Boooooooooooooooo
Liongold


Last edited by liongold on Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:34 pm; edited 3 times in total
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liongold
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:29 pm    Post subject: havian Reply with quote

+100 Dikikeys! This thing would be worth something if it had some decent memory AND the 3x VP! Korg ain't gonna give us everything in one neat package. Like I've said before...bitness is bitness. I still love my 3x. I think I'll pass on this half-assed unit.
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Sam CA
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me, this actually makes sense. From real life experience, not all but most keyboard players who play the arranger keyboards exclusively have a very weak LEFT hand. Also most of them never practiced on a real piano and have never developed the muscles to play the piano weighted keys comfortably. Workstations are geared towards people with more advanced needs and keyboard techniques. I'm not suggesting that Arranger keyboard players are dumb. It's just a lot easier to sound good on an arranger keyboard with automatic bells and whistles than on a workstation where you have to do most of the work yourself.
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Dikikeys
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure the point you're trying to make Sam... I wasn't really making a point about pianists vs. arranger players. Sure, a lot of 61 arranger players of of the 'hobbyist' ilk may not have that strong a left hand, but whether strong or weak, it doesn't change the QUALITY or features you need...

If you need an arranger at all, I thought one would think that a pianist wants the better features, not less. Confused
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Sam CA
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can not argue this case without looking at Pianist vs arranger players. Again, most arranger players do not have the need for a full keybed. Only a few will find that useful. On the other hand, most pianists won't be interested in having a full blown arranger either because they're either band oriented or they wouldn't like to get limited by a loop based performance. It's more likely that a Pianist would choose a low priced entry level arranger just to have some kind of accompaniment in the background. There's always exceptions! Arranger keyboards attract a lot of people who don't have time to practice or want to have a good sounding output without having to develop playing techniques. That's just a fact. You can start playing an arranger keyboard today for the first time, and by the end of the day you could possibly put together a short tune using the automatic features. That makes a lot of people happy. They could careless if there's a 88 keys version available which by the way is heavier and more expensive.
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nitecrawler
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam CA wrote:
You can not argue this case without looking at Pianist vs arranger players. Again, most arranger players do not have the need for a full keybed. Only a few will find that useful. On the other hand, most pianists won't be interested in having a full blown arranger either because they're either band oriented or they wouldn't like to get limited by a loop based performance. It's more likely that a Pianist would choose a low priced entry level arranger just to have some kind of accompaniment in the background. There's always exceptions! Arranger keyboards attract a lot of people who don't have time to practice or want to have a good sounding output without having to develop playing techniques. That's just a fact. You can start playing an arranger keyboard today for the first time, and by the end of the day you could possibly put together a short tune using the automatic features. That makes a lot of people happy. They could careless if there's a 88 keys version available which by the way is heavier and more expensive.


+1 Sam. This keyboard is geared towards home based piano players. They have it placed in the piano line up. The PA side of it does not carry as much importance to the demographic they are gearing towards. What they do offer should be plenty for them.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to admit, as a piano player, I can't disagree more with your evaluation, Sam. Whether you play a 61, a 76 or an 88 has absolutely NOTHING to do with what type of 'player' you are. There are many very highly skilled players using arrangers. They aren't doing it because they lack the skills to do backing with a WS. They use them because they can make professional sounding backing much FASTER than traditional WS workflow with an arranger.

Truth is, the so-called 'pro' arrangers like the PA3x and, apparently, the PA900 (because Korg apparently think it is spec'd too high for 'home players) most likely sit in people's living rooms far more than on some stage somewhere...

The point I am trying to make is that, for some unknown reason, if you prefer to play on a decent feeling 88 keyboard (as most pianists do!), you have ONLY the BOTL arranger to pick from. Let us not forget, there is a good Pianist mode that can easily be used by pianists to add complete backing to their playing... You don't NEED to be in split mode making simple little chords with your LH if you don't WANT to! So why do pianists, whether home OR professional, get such short shrift from arranger manufacturers..? What is it about their particular skills makes them need fewer features and sounds than 'regular' (hah!) keyboard players?

The piano needs as complex a backing as any other type of lead sound. I honestly can't for the life of me figure out what the size of the bloody keybed has got to do with ANYTHING... Rolling Eyes

Imagine if the shoe were on the other foot... as a 61 keyboard user, would YOU feel that it was OK to reserve the best features in the arranger line for ONLY 88 note keybed users? Wouldn't you feel, under those circumstances, that the arrangers' features had nothing to do with whatever size you felt you preferred to play?

Look at the T5... For years, everyone pooh-poohed the idea of a 76 note Tyros. Who on earth needed one of those, right? Twisted Evil Now look... the 76 T5 is doing very well, and may be almost as popular as the 61. I see no difference here. Why does a 76 PA3X make sense, and a PA3X88 make none? Why does an 88 PA600 make sense, and a PA3X88 doesn't?

I am sorry, but I don't see any difference between what the 'pro' needs, and what the 'home' player does. I know of home players that make a bunch of so-called 'pros' sound amateurish! Your skill level is nothing to do with whether you pursue it as a career. And your needs for good sounding backing doesn't change if you are playing at home or on stage. If you could use a PA3X61 at home, and can play piano, you could just as easily need a PA3X88. That Korg force you, if you DO like a nice 88 action, to play the BOTL is pretty much flipping the bird at you! I have a feeling a bunch of amateur 'home' players of little skill barely need even 61 notes! What's next? a 49 note arranger? Twisted Evil
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Sam CA
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nitecrawler wrote:
The PA side of it does not carry as much importance to the demographic they are gearing towards. What they do offer should be plenty for them.


Exactly! The Pianist/workstation community does not even know what a Style (as an arranger term) even means. Aside from all this, you also have this huge Middle Eastern and Turkish market for arranger keyboards. They also have absolutely no desire for a 88 keybed either. In fact they don't even like the weighted keys for the reason mentioned above. Most arranger players wouldn't even know what to do with that extra octave.

Again, there are always exceptions but no realistic market to sell that kind of product.
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