buying a new oasys for cash

[fv]

Hi,

I think that there is a lot more than just the actual manufacturing cost that goes into pricing a product. While in terms of materials and labour to build an Oasys 88 it is probably quite low now compared to the actual selling price, there is the R&D costs of originally developing the hardware and software plus the ongoing software cost to upgrade it with either new features and bug fixes.

I won't pretend to know what it actually costs to manufacturer an Oasys but there are a few things that go into my decisions on whether to buy a piece of gear or not. How badly do I need it, will it make my life easier/better, can I afford it and do I feel it is worth the asking price (to me)?

dhjdhj: I rarely consider the resale price of a piece that I buy. When I buy, I look at how much use I will get out of it and whether it will make me money (or make me happy ). If you're looking at resale before you buy, then you might want to consider why you are even buying it to begin with.

Anyway, not trying to cause waves here so I hope that I'm not offending anyone. Just thought I'd put a different perspective on things.

Fernando

[MauroR]

What a crappy policy of not being able to drop the price. The cost of the machine is probably half of what it was when it first came out. Has Korg dropped the price at all in the last few years?

HALF???? Are you freaking kidding me?????!!!! The ACTUAL cost of an O 88 is OVER $6,000!!!!! How can you POSSIBLY make a CRAZY assumption like that?!!!!

If that WAS the case, the OASYS would NOT be $8,500! It would be priced a LITTLE higher than that P.O.S. M3! I work at Sam Ash Music now and I have access to ACTUAL COST of EVERY item we sell.

And the price of the OASYS is NOT gonna drop anytime soon. You might be able to get good deals on one, but I can even BEGIN to think that the price is gonna drop, simply because of how ridiculously LOW the profit is on the OASYS compared to a Motif XS8 or Fantom.

GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!

Sina

Sina sometimes it seems that you work for Korg. I have this impression.

[Sina172]

...

[funkylizard]

Umm, Apple doesn't really use proprietery hardware. It's all off the shelf computer equippment except maybe the motherboard. For example, I could build the EXACT same machine as the Mac Pro by going to the local computer store and buying parts (except for the sweet case of the Mac Pro, wish you could walk in and buy that:) ) Most RAM has lifetime warranty so your example of paying more for Apple Care is silly. Actually, buying a harddrive from a computer store (like a western digital drive) gives you a 3 year warranty on it. Oh, yeah... Apple only gives you a one year out of the box unless you pay for an extra 2 years.

Anyway, you don't understand manufacturing. Yes, I have said that Korg is clearly still spending money on R&D for the machine but if you think that the cost of building the Oasys is the same now as it was 3 years ago, you are very confused.

I originally asked if Korg has dropped their price since the Oasys was released. That question wasn't answered.

Either way, I'll probably buy it for $6775 at a local store here. Considering the range for the 88 I've seen locally is 6775 to 8300, I question what Korg is charging the distributors and stores. Clearly the store selling it for 6775 is still making money, nice mark-up by the 8300 stores

[MauroR]

HALF???? Are you freaking kidding me?????!!!! The ACTUAL cost of an O 88 is OVER $6,000!!!!! How can you POSSIBLY make a CRAZY assumption like that?!!!!

If that WAS the case, the OASYS would NOT be $8,500! It would be priced a LITTLE higher than that P.O.S. M3! I work at Sam Ash Music now and I have access to ACTUAL COST of EVERY item we sell.

And the price of the OASYS is NOT gonna drop anytime soon. You might be able to get good deals on one, but I can even BEGIN to think that the price is gonna drop, simply because of how ridiculously LOW the profit is on the OASYS compared to a Motif XS8 or Fantom.

GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!

Sina

Sina sometimes it seems that you work for Korg. I have this impression.

When someone makes a derogatory statement like that. I WILL flame him/her. It pisses me off to see people make claims that are SIMPLY NOT TRUE. The OASYS is priced the way it is because of the software developments AND the hardware. The screen ALONE is about $1000 in cost! And that was 3 YEARS ago! Guess what the price is now? $1000! Forget the CPU, RAM, Hard Drive, etc. That means NOTHING. It also absolutely appalls that people are crazy enough to actually compare the MI Industry to the Computer industry. Yes, many if not MOST computer parts are mass-produced. But the profit margin is very little, hence why you can get a 750GB Hard Drive for around $150 and why you can get a screaming WinBLOWS computer for UNDER $1000. In the MI Industry, they have to buy things in BULK, as in HUUUUGE quantities because of how INSANELY FAST the Computer Industry moves and once a computer part is discontinued, it would be next to IMPOSSIBLE to find that SAME product (and I'm talking make AND model #). So they buy them in bulk to make sure they have the parts if something went wrong. Prices as a result are 3-4 TIMES HIGHER than the Computer Industry!

Now why is Apple SO FREAKIN' expensive? Because like the OASYS, it's the marriage of PROPRIETARY Hardware AND Software that makes it THAT MUCH more reliable and that MANY of the parts are NOT user serviceable. On the SAME side, however, Apple RAM is WAY the hell overpriced. The ONLY advantage to buying the "Apple Brand" direct, however, is the fact that your RAM will be covered by Apple Care. Same thing with the Internal Hard Drives. If I'm gonna build my Apple Mac Pro, you BET your rear end that I'm gonna go with the Apple Brand, just because of the Warranty and piece of mind. If a Hard Drive EVER fails on me, I KNOW I'm covered because I got it DIRECT from Apple. THAT ALONE justifies its price tag to me!

In the case of the OASYS, NONE of the parts are user-serviceable (unless your a computer genius that KNOW how these systems work) and the fact that the HARDWARE (as ancient as it may seem) is ridiculously expensive make the OASYS THAT MUCH MORE expensive.

In the Computer Industry as another example, Laptops are WAY more expensive than desktops with the SAME specs because of this as well.

Sina

Sina you don't have to explaining to me these technical things because I know it already, I meant just that it seems that someone has attacked or criticized your gilrfriend or your family, it's a machine, you don't need to get angry like this.

[dhjdhj]

As someone currently working in the investment field, here's my two cents on how value really works.

The value of an item is precisely what people are willing to pay for that item.

If people aren't willing to pay a particular price for an item, one of two things will happen:

1) The price will be reduced to a point where people ARE willing to pay for it
2) If that price can't be found (or it's less than the cost to make it), then the item will go away.


So the Oasys is currently worth $7k because people have demonstrated their willingness to pay that much to own one, several years after it has been out.

However, it's a small number of units and a small number of customers at those prices. But remember the Yahama GX-1, an extremely expensive early polyphonic synth, costing about $50k or so that was bought by just a few superstars (so it was worth it to them). Subsequent developments produced the much more cheap CS-80 which appealed to more people and so on.

I'm expecting to see the same thing with the Oasys....just wondering when!

[Daz]

I am sure we've all thought that the Oasys looks expensive in comparison to a new PC/Mac, it can't be helped, regardless of the sensible reasons for that disparity.

On the other hand, if you look at the V-Synth GT and the Clavia Nord Wave, the Oasys looks relatively cheap considering it's capabilities. You can cover a lot of the Wave's capabilities (if not character) without leaving Program mode on the Oasys. In Combi mode you get something akin to a handful of Wave's, for about 2.5 times the price. Same goes with the GT (ignoring all his special capabilities); if you use two HQ Pulse wave oscillators the poly drops a fair bit, and the poly per buck looks less favourable against the Oasys/AL-1.

Daz.

[Hedegaard]

I must stress that it is KORG UK who dictate the pricing in the UK. They stipulate to dealers that they CANNOT sell the OASYS for less than the RRP.

That sounds illegal in this country.
In that regard, Korg don't decide anything upon the dealer.
Once the dealer has bought from Korg, its the dealers choice what price to sell to a customer.
Korg shouldn't be allowed to dictate prices, but they are allowed to decide whom to sell to.

[Hedegaard]

The screen ALONE is about $1000 in cost! And that was 3 YEARS ago! Guess what the price is now? $1000!

Oh don't be silly!
You obviously don't know anything about service centers or manufacturing processes & costs to say this.

I repeat: The screen is NOT $1000 in cost!
If it were $1000 then it would be (at the very least) a grade#1 LCD meaning there is 0% pixel faults.
Since Korg in the manuals, already state that a certain % of pixel faults are within 'normality', that fact alone makes the screen not worth $1000.

These screens, which are nothing fancy, can be had for as little as $100 in cost.

And I know what I'm talking about!

[Hedegaard]

In the case of the OASYS, NONE of the parts are user-serviceable (unless your a computer genius that KNOW how these systems work)...........

Oh come on!

The HD is replaceable.
The mainboard is replaceable.
The push buttons and faders (internal on the curcuit board) are replaceable.
The LCD is replaceable.
The keys are replaceable.

The only things, quite few, which can't be replaced (or serviced as you prefer to term it) by the "average Joe" is obviously the frame and the custom outboard curcuit boards and IC's.

[Mike Conway]

I originally asked if Korg has dropped their price since the Oasys was released. That question wasn't answered.

Within the last year or so, the OASYS 76 key dropped from $7,999 to $7,499. The 88 key model stayed the same.

I have heard of other stores fudging with the price. I've heard from several people that Guitar Centers are clearing out units in the low 5K range. That doesn't make it an "official" price, but you can get a heck of a deal.

[thekeymaster]

That sounds illegal in this country.
In that regard, Korg don't decide anything upon the dealer.
Once the dealer has bought from Korg, its the dealers choice what price to sell to a customer.
Korg shouldn't be allowed to dictate prices, but they are allowed to decide whom to sell to.

Not if Korg don't sell the keyboard to the retailer but allow them to sell them at their shops and then give them a percentage of the sale once the keyboards sell.If it doesn't sell it gets returned to Korg.

Its more like an understanding....

I appreciate what you're saying but the retailer can't dicate a price on stock they don't own.

[funkylizard]

Within the last year or so, the OASYS 76 key dropped from $7,999 to $7,499. The 88 key model stayed the same.

Thanks Mike, I have found the 88 for $6,795 CAD so I think I am going to pull the trigger on that!

[Hedegaard]

Not if Korg don't sell the keyboard to the retailer but allow them to sell them at their shops and then give them a percentage of the sale once the keyboards sell.If it doesn't sell it gets returned to Korg.

Its more like an understanding....

I appreciate what you're saying but the retailer can't dicate a price on stock they don't own.

Thanks for the explanation.
Ah! Yes, that makes sense. Thats quite a good agreement. That way Korg pays for a bit of "location" to show forth their instruments.

Over here, you buy them from the wholesaler / manufacturer and you "burn in" with stock if you don't manage to sell any.
So a few companys only order from the wholesaler IF they get a paid order from a customer.
It takes a little longer for the customer to get his product, but then the price isn't dictated to you either.
I know what the cost price is of the O, but am under contract and cannot reveal this.

[steve m]

If Korg drops the price, your resale value goes down FAST

I noticed that the Retail Price at a major Korg dealer in Australia has just dropped to AU$ 6300 ( about US$ 5900, or UK 3,000 ) for a new Oasys 76.
That's $1000 less than I paid for mine 5 months ago - hohum.

That's the advertised price too, not an ' I'll do you a deal' price. Good news if you are thinking about purchasing one.