Dee - March 08

[Dee]

Here is my song:

http://www.korgforums.com/mp3/Dee_March_08.mp3

This needs a lot of work soundwise.........it's a bit of a producer's nightmare (just to prepare you for the shock Jon).

When the new computer comes I'll change the way I work and use a software seq. Can't wait!

Regards from
Dee

[ellll]

Hi Dee,

This is a great sound and feel! Very lush and romantic...Love it!!..It is a bit different, more "open", and secure, maybe, than your previous(??)...I will let our resident engineers comment on most of the sound...but the music is nice indeed!!

Might it have a somewhat smoother line in the piano, a bit more expressive yet... agressive as well, in a few places? It just sounds a little hesitant in a few spots..just something I felt I was hearing, yet that IS subjective I know...and with that idea:

You could do a bit of ebb and swell...(this is rather "tidey" to me...as, like the flow of water along a seashore...Hope thats o.k...) That is, phrase it more exactly by using dynamics to a larger degree.. Give it a VERY soft entry for a phrase, and period, with a build in the volume as it swells??? Just a maybe dumb idea..

Thanks for putting on a killer piece here for us!!!,

Best Regards,ellll

[Dee]

Hi John
Thanks for the listen!
Ummm....dynamics! My big headache! I do find playing piano on the synth comes out a bit "clunky". It picks up every little bit of uneven playing. Then if you set it to be even, it sounds too boring.

But I had lots of fun grappling with that pre-set combi, and trying to keep up with all the required black notes in the piano part!

Regards from
Dee

[JonSolo]

What a gorgeous song! However, unless I am just blind here, I don't really like the name "Dee_March_08"...it just doesn't fit the emotions of the song.

Seriously, the song is beautiful and deserves a title fitting of that. I love the breakdown where the percussion drops out. Then the changeup where it comes back in is inspiring. This is a very enjoyable piece.

Now I would not call it a producer's nightmare. Stephen said somewhere else that he would lost with a hardware sequencer, and I have to admit, those of you who still use them exclusively amaze me with the results. Your song is no different.

Technical:

I think the piano would have a more fluid fill if it were washed a little more in reverb. I would not do it to the point where you lose it's pointedness, but just enough to take the edges off of the end. I would also give your percussion more reverb. It has a delay on there, but that does not take the place of a good reverb sound to have it floating along.

The volume of the percussion should go down a hair, along with the piano. There is some fantastic background that is getting lost because of that mix.

The strings that double the piano lead at the end also need a longer decay, or some reverb to help carry them.

And as a small note of taste, it would be great to hear some bell-like sound accompanying the piano and string lead at the end...duplicating them same notes or every few notes...or even what your left hand is doing.

I hope this does not seem like a whole lot, because it reality it is not. Just a few volume tweaks and reverb is the biggest factors.

Again I really enjoyed this song!

Jon

[ellll]

I think "Dee"

Fits the "emotions" pretty good...since she's a gurlll... Just kiddin Jon...I know what you are saying...Great comments!!

Dee, you're the only girl we have and we are all proud of you....!

ellll

[Dee]

Hi Jon and John
Thanks for the comments. I'm sure that a title will emerge soon....the song turned out differently to what I started out with, so that's why I didn't find a name for it yet.

I'll definitely work on the 'ebb and flow' feel - I can hear where it should happen. I have to go from 'tidy' to 'TIDEY' .......

The strings at the end sounded much softer after the mp3 conversion, so I'll try to fix that. Great ideas there Jon - thanks! I also thought the piano part was too loud.

After my audio dump to Sonar (this after carrying the computer bit by bit downstairs .......and then back upstairs.....wish you fellas were here to lend a hand ........the synth is 88keys and too heavy to shift by myself), do I need to convert the Sonar file to .wav first, before mp3? I've been doing this, but saw an option to export as mp3 straight away...???....and wondered if I should skip the wav step? (I did use 256bps)

And about the drums: when they re-enter, I had them coming in on beat 1 of the new sections, then changed it to the previous up-beat. Just a small thing, but I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this.

Thanks again,

Dee

[ellll]

Isn't it true,

The least steps in conversion...the less loss you have in the quality...I was told this, and to not up and down convert as well, as each time, you lose a little?? Jon?

John

[georgeinar]

Dee, first of all I love this song. I just love it. There a moments that sound very 60s to me, you may not even be old enough to know the style (OK I may be admitting something here) but I love the harmonies and how and where you take us with the melody, I love that the drums come in on the up beat. I do think the piano notes are all the same 'velocity' as it's called on the TS. On my Triton I can modify them for velocity and make parts quieter, just for a measure or so or for a whole set of phrases. That my help with the piano dynamics. I think Jonsolo is probably right on as far as reverb, I have been struggling with reverb myself. I worry that it's going to sound too 'verby' and it ends up quite dry sounding. Years ago I smoothed out all my rough edges with tons of reverb and now I overcompensate the other way. I would try also listening to this at very low volumes and also at very high volumes as certain aspects become evident when at extreme levels (not too extreme). But like if I have too much bass for instance, when I blast it into my headphones I can tell immediately, and a low volumes you may find that a certain lead part gets totally buried. I have my fingers crossed with your new computer stuff, I usually take 3 steps back whenever I get anything new, and have another learning curve that sets me back a bit. But it's usually a good investment in the long run. Your song is so beautiful and so full of well inspired performances that this will be well worth whatever effort it takes to make this baby sparkle. And as far as production nightmares, every song I do has its own challenges and I get very frustrated most of the time at certain parts. Way to go, Dee. Don't forget us all when you hit the big time. We knew you when!! as they say.

[Dee]

Thanks George! Glad you like it.

You talk about adjusting the velocity of the piano notes. This is different from the volume, right? Volume is Ctrl change #7, so what would velocity be? On my list there's #11, called Expression (it says it's function is 'volume')...huh?
Is this the CC# I should use? This'll help with that ebb and flow that I'm after.

And should I skip the .wav step? Probably should, if it's possible. As John points out, there's loss of quality with each conversion.

[georgeinar]

I'm not sure the control number as I have a special check box on the TS called Modify Velocity, so it zeroes in on that function specifically. As far as wav files vs mp3s: Mp3s are simply for sharing the music with others or playing it on mp3 players. I have original mastered wav files for all my songs and when I burn cd's I burn from the original wav, not the mp3. When you convert to mp3 I do believe there is some minor quality loss, but it's not to the point that you need to worry about having us listen for mastering problems or mix issues etc. And I name the versions of my wavs like putting a number behind them, so I have song4 forexample meaning the 4th remix. Also, I will name a mix such as title-withmorereverb for example so I an go back and keep track of which mix I did for what reason. This is just my own method of refixing things and staying organized.

[ellll]

Hi Dee..... ,

I should have said something about velocity...but wasn't sure how the feature was controlled on the Triton, and assumed you did know, and would use it when you wished...

In any event the velocity, how hard you strike the key (!!!)....is the single most important feature for piano and many other instruments that depend on a percussive attack......

It is the "touch" of the keyboard....you are going back in and improving on your original touch when you alter the velocity, and there are many ways to do it....

The result "can" be a more realistic feel of "ebb and flow"...and that was what I was referring to....I just failed to mention "velocity" ..for I don't use much as it changes a bit what I orig. played...

It can be VERY tedious however, so you want to do a "group" velocity cnange by curves when you can..(should be listed somehow in your text...), otherwise you have to change every note, one at a time.... a bit much

Try It!!!! Best! ellll

edit...By the way, the old O1Wfd I use also has a level on a page listed as .."Modify Velocity.." as George says...Someone tell us what it says on the Triton Dee has???

[Stephen]

OH....how I wish I could play like that!
This is just simply beautiful!
Excellent work here Dee, you're starting to really get a handle on the drum thing also, congratulations.
Regards,

[JonSolo]

As a footnote to the comments on loss of quality, I have started a new thread.

Jon

[Dee]

Hi Stephen

Glad you liked the drums! I remembered what you told me (2 years ago I think it was...??) about paying attention to upbeats and things. Don't be too impressed with the piano playing....there's a lot of trickery involved

Thanks George and John for the velocity info! I found just the same thing for the TC. Guess where?.....in the User Manual

Goody, now I can go and try it out!

Thanks for the post about sound quality Jon - it's great. Got it safely printed and in my file already. Very efficient aren't I

Regards from
Dee

[ellll]

Yes