Radias vs. Radias board in M3?

[USCJC]

I'm trying to decide between a Radias
or getting a Korg M3 with the Radias expansion board.

What do I lose Radias sound wise with the expansion board over going
just with a Radias to begin with?

Thanks for any feedback.

[xmlguy]

You lose 75% of the timbres, down to one from four. For that one timbre, the synth structure is the same on the EXB-RADIAS as on the Radias. Having the M3 may well make up for the loss of timbres.

[dr_boehm]

... and you loose all the knobs!

Ciao, Dirk.

[rfoshaug]

If you use the Radias Expansion board in combi or sequencer mode, you have all 4 timbres available.

There is a difference in the architecture of the two:

Radias standalone synth: A "program" can have up to 4 timbres, each timbre is a sound in itself (say, lead, bass, or drums). These can be layered or split across the keyboard, or triggered on different MIDI channels from external sequencers or keyboards.

Radias expansion for M3: A "program" is like other M3 programs - a single timbre. But in sequencer or combi modes, you can select up to 4 timbres that will have Radias sounds enabled so that you can play with up to 4 Radias programs at the same time in these modes.


The main differences in what is lost/gained between the two are:

Radias standalone synth: Each timbre has 2 insert effects, and the entire (multi-timbral) program has a master effect.

Radias expansion for M3: In program mode (single timbre) you have the M3's built-in 5 insert effects, 2 master effects and 1 total effect. You also have more effect types to choose from. But in the multi-timbral modes (sequencer and combi) you still have "only" these 5 IFX, 2 MFX and 1 TFX that all 16 timbres must share, Radias or not. So in total, the Radias standalone synth gives you a greater number of independent effects units (a total of 9 for a program with 4 timbres), while EXB-Radias lets you route a single sound through a greater number effects and also gives you M3's larger number of different effects types to choose from.


Radias standalone synth: Knobs and more knobs. Oh, did I mention knobs?

Radias expansion for M3: Touchscreen. More graphical representations of parameters, but also more tabs and pages and numbers to edit instead of just twisting a knob.


Radias standalone synth: You can create analog drumkits using drum samples from famous drum machines or using anything in the Radias synthesis. 1 of the 4 timbres can be set to play a drumkit. A Radias drumkit contains up to 16 drum sounds.

Radias expansion for M3: No Radias drumkits. But the M3's own drumkits are very good (but maybe not quite as "analog" sounding as those created on the Radias if that is what you're after).


There are also a difference in the number of virtual patches (where you let something control a synth parameter, for example let an LFO control oscillator 2's volume etc.):

Radias standalone synth: 6 v. patches
Radias expansion for M3: 8 v. patches

Now that both are updated to version 2.0, both have the same destinations (synth parameters) for these patches. However the sources (controllers) are a bit different: in addition to the LFO's EG's etc., in the Radias standalone synth you have 5 MIDI control changes that you can select so that they correspond to the control change sent by your favourite controller, while in M3 you directly select controllers that the standalone synth don't have, like ribbon, aftertouch, and X-Y pad. Of course for the standalone synth, you can just set MIDI 1-5 to correspond to those controllers and play away via MIDI.


Of course, the best would be to get both, as I have. But sadly, there is no way of converting a timbre made on the Radias standalone synth to a program for EXB-Radias or vice versa.


But if the choice is between Radias or M3 with EXB-Radias, I'd get the M3 because you also get the PCM-based EDS synthesis with 512 preset programs and another 512 programs just released by Korg, you get 120 notes of EDS polyphony PLUS the 24 notes of Radias polyphony. You get a total of 16 timbres (of which up to 4 can be Radias) vs. only 4 timbres on the Radias standalone synth.

But it all boils down to your needs and the music you play. Maybe you play in a band and don't need a sequencer or use a software-based seuqencer. Maybe you don't need all those timbres or already have some sample-based synth and really just need the Virtual Analog synthesis of Radias. If so, I'd get the standalone Radias synth.


Hope this helps and good luck with your purchase. Whatever you decide, Korgforums is a great place to ask questions and share experiences.

[xmlguy]

If you use the Radias Expansion board in combi or sequencer mode, you have all 4 timbres available.

Thanks for the clarification. That makes more sense for how it is integrated within the M3, mono-timbral per Radias program, but 4 part multi-timbral across M3 programs.

I thought I saw that the formant data gets stored differently, in the M3 memory instead of in the Radias module, right?

[Timo]

Hi rfo, informative post! Thanks.

But sadly, there is no way of converting a timbre made on the Radias standalone synth to a program for EXB-Radias or vice versa.

Really? That's a shame. It completely splits the resource and creative pool of having both platforms support, what would otherwise be, the same Radias entity.

I'd have thought Korg would have wanted to make them compatible, to make the Radias platform stronger and signficantly more successful/pervasive.

Missed opportunity methinks. Reminds me of the old Trinity Solo and Moss platforms, or Trinity Moss and Triton Moss.

[USCJC]

Thanks - your comments have been really helpful.

[georgeinar]

Rfoshaug: thanks for such a good explanation. I'm going back and forth about which to get, I'm thinking the internal M3 version of Radias is better for my needs as I'm exclusively sequencing my songs at home and that seems to integrate better.