M3 vs. Fantom-G vs. MotifXS

[eibbor]

Hey all.

First I'll say that I think every keyboard related forum should have a thread like this stickied at the top. I'm sure I'm about to ask some extremely unoriginal questions. But I'm not about to go digging through all kinds of threads when I can just ask a question and get all the answers in one place.

In case the title isn't obvious enough... I want a new keyboard. My Roland Juno-G has treated me well, but its limitations are... limiting.

What I'm really asking here is, what do each of these workstations excel at? I'm pretty much convinced that they all have loads of redeeming qualities. All of them are in all likelihood awesome. But that doesn't help me much. Nor does reading the spec sheets.

I play in a "progressive symphonic power metal" band. So, I'm mainly after good symphonic sounds (obviously :p), some ripping lead sounds, top-notch piano, and some truly weird and heavy stuff (snarling pig!).

Also, whatever I get will be used live quite extensively (hence I'm looking at a M3-76 key version... mainly for future Radias expandability, a Fantom-G 61 key, and an XS 61 key), so anything that will smooth out the live experience is greatly appreciated. Slow patch changes are Satan's work. I can't stand them. During most of our songs, my hands are constantly busy doing something, and there's really no time for any sort of a gap between patches. I have a pedal to speed up the process, but the keyboard just isn't keeping up.

I don't give a rat's ass about any recording capabilities, sequencer, arpeggiatior, KARMA, or anything along those lines.

Why am I looking at the M3?

- I can't afford an OASYS (something tells me a lot of people have used that reasoning :p)
- Korg products seem to be the most popular among metal keyboardists.
- They seem to sound good.
- I like the idea of being able to stick a Radias in the thing when some more money floats my way.

What do I find off-putting?

- I'm concerned about the patch-change time.
- The amount of insert effects you can use at once in combination mode are lacking compared to the Fantom-G.
- It's relatively new, so... are there loads of bugs?

Don't think I'm not going to be spending loads of time with each of these instruments in the local music stores. I just can't get to that until the weekend, and I'd like to get some opinions.

Thanks!

[EJ2]

In both 2007 and 2008, Korg's M3 beat out Yamaha's Motif XS and Roland's Fantom G as the best Keyboard Workstation. However, regardless of that fact, an M3 with EXB RADIAS onboard will definitely supply you with power metal sounds, ripping leads etc. The latest 512 program infusion from Korg shines.
Cheers,
Eric

[Gary L]

In both 2007 and 2008, Korg's M3 beat out Yamaha's Motif XS and Roland's Fantom G as the best Keyboard Workstation. However, regardless of that fact, an M3 with EXB RADIAS onboard will definitely supply you with power metal sounds, ripping leads etc. The latest 512 program infusion from Korg shines.
Cheers,Eric

Uh, an opinion only by writers or whom? If you use overall sales as a measure, the Motif XS is a clear winner. Using Guitar Center as the source, as they are the largest retailer by a large margin, they have sold the Motif XS over the past 7 months in an almost 3 to 1 margin against the competition and say it has far and away been their most popular seller since it came out, minus the initial rush for two months when the M3 came out. The new Fantom G by Roland is selling very well as its the new thing and that is usually the case. However an interesting piece of information shows that almost 3 in 10 Fantom G's sold are being returned which is supposedly a very large number from what I was told, and I know it has some people at GC raising their eyebrows and taking notice.

I'm certainly not here to debate the best workstation, as I think there is a best workstation for each individual rather than a best overall workstation. I don't think any person can say this keyboard is better than this one as its different for every person. The only tangible facts to go on are sales as they public spends money on what they want. I bring this up as I am a M3 owner and think its a great workstation and the best for me, however many other people would disagree as evidenced by the overall sales.

[GregC]

XS7 + M3M

[Synthoid]

an interesting piece of information shows that almost 3 in 10 Fantom G's sold are being returned which is supposedly a very large number from what I was told, and I know it has some people at GC raising their eyebrows and taking notice.

That's quite a surprise.

I read on another forum that the new Fantom wasn't as great as expected, but 3 in 10 returned? Wow!

[EJ2]

In both 2007 and 2008, Korg's M3 beat out Yamaha's Motif XS and Roland's Fantom G as the best Keyboard Workstation. However, regardless of that fact, an M3 with EXB RADIAS onboard will definitely supply you with power metal sounds, ripping leads etc. The latest 512 program infusion from Korg shines.
Cheers,Eric

Uh, an opinion only by writers or whom? If you use overall sales as a measure, the Motif XS is a clear winner. Using Guitar Center as the source, as they are the largest retailer by a large margin, they have sold the Motif XS over the past 7 months in an almost 3 to 1 margin against the competition and say it has far and away been their most popular seller since it came out, minus the initial rush for two months when the M3 came out. The new Fantom G by Roland is selling very well as its the new thing and that is usually the case. However an interesting piece of information shows that almost 3 in 10 Fantom G's sold are being returned which is supposedly a very large number from what I was told, and I know it has some people at GC raising their eyebrows and taking notice.

I'm certainly not here to debate the best workstation, as I think there is a best workstation for each individual rather than a best overall workstation. I don't think any person can say this keyboard is better than this one as its different for every person. The only tangible facts to go on are sales as they public spends money on what they want. I bring this up as I am a M3 owner and think its a great workstation and the best for me, however many other people would disagree as evidenced by the overall sales.

Sorry, I disagree with you. MESSE evaluation is nothing to sniff at.

[eibbor]

While an interesting debate, none of you have actually answered my questions.

So far it's been:

- "M3 is the best"
- "Depends on what you're after... here are some sales figures"
- "Nuh uh!"

I asked specific questions for a reason... your little exchange is likely nothing new, and doesn't help anyone stuck between the 3 contenders. Sure, sales figures do a good job of indicating which is "best". But...

We've established that there is no "best". We've established that each excels at different things. And I'm asking what those things are.

[jimmied999]

Interesting approach - talking down to those whose help you're seeking.

Perhaps you should just put in the time necessary to discover that what you need already exists in this forum, and then go to the store for a hands-on eval.

Best of luck!

[eibbor]

Interesting approach - talking down to those whose help you're seeking.

Perhaps you should just put in the time necessary to discover that what you need already exists in this forum, and then go to the store for a hands-on eval.

Best of luck!

Not talking down at all. It just puzzles me that whenever I ask a forum like this a specific question, it almost never gets answered. I've gotten similar responses to the exact same question at the Roland Clan forums and the Harmony Central forums, for example. I ask specific questions and provide loads of background information with the intent of making it easier for the people answering.

I asked about the strengths of each workstation, and nothing of the sort has been mentioned yet.

I realize that ultimately I have to try the things out to know for sure. And I'm doing that tomorrow. All I wanted were some preliminary opinions from others obviously more experienced than myself, addressing the questions I asked.

Still waiting

[MartinHines]

Unfortunately there are probably few people who can really answer your question.

At best, most people have purchased one of the keyboards in question (M3, XS, and G) and have demoed the others for a very short period of time, really not enough time to truly answer your question.

So the opinions you end up with (on any forum) are going to be biased based on features/qualities individuals found most important to them.

Regarding "sounds", some people will prefer the M3's soundset while others will prefer the XS. Unfortunately Gs are just arriving at stores so most people haven't demoed them yet.

Regarding "patch change time" you can easily test this when you demo.

Regarding "effects", the M3 has slightly more effects capabilities than the Triton series since it adds the "total effect". People have been successfully using the Triton series with its 5 simultaneous insert effects for years now. However, the number (5) is what it is and can't be changed.

Regarding "bugs" both the XS and M3 have been out for a year now, and both have had enough OS updates to get rid of all the initial bugs (i.e. bugs not found by internal company testing). The Fantom-G will definitely have some bugs for at least a few months if not longer.

I personally have not spent enough time with any of these keyboards to be able to give a fair assessment. I would make two suggestions regarding your demos:
1) take a good set of headphones with you so you eliminate any variance due to specific speaker setups
2) take a notepad and pen and write down detailed notes about each of the different sound categories including the number of sounds in each category you think you could use

[EJ2]

While an interesting debate, none of you have actually answered my questions.

So far it's been:

- "M3 is the best"
- "Depends on what you're after... here are some sales figures"
- "Nuh uh!"

I asked specific questions for a reason... your little exchange is likely nothing new, and doesn't help anyone stuck between the 3 contenders. Sure, sales figures do a good job of indicating which is "best". But...

We've established that there is no "best". We've established that each excels at different things. And I'm asking what those things are.

Hey, I answered you.

However, regardless of that fact, an M3 with EXB RADIAS onboard will definitely supply you with power metal sounds, ripping leads etc. The latest 512 program infusion from Korg shines.

I don't have a Fantom G nor a Yamaha Motif XS. So, you want me to rush out and do your auditioning for you? Do it yourself!

[eibbor]

Thanks for the replies. And yes, if you would do my auditioning for me, that would be great

This is going to be a really tough decision. I've been doing research on the Internet for the last few days, and every time I look through the specs and see some opinions one of the boards, I convince myself that it would probably be ideal. Then I read up on one of the others, and I convince myself that that one would be ideal. Blargh.

I suppose this is a good problem to have... it shows just how lucky we have it. Too many good choices!

I guess I assumed you were all compulsive gear buyers like you usually see in these kinds of forums... the sorts of folks who have 2 of each flagship workstation, an OASYS, and dozens of obscure, old synths lying around. The thought of someone doing as I do, using only one keyboard for everything, just doesn't compute with me. Surely I'm the only cheapskate out there :p

[ashboe]

It really depends on what exactly it is you are after. The M3 is really 3 huge sections of keyboard in 1 - a mighty sampler, a big sequencer and a keen keyboard (probably loads of other things as well).
I have had a look at the G8, and it is VERY impressive, essentially the M3 with a computer added (very basic over simplification, I know). I never touch Yamaha electric stuff, so I can't comment.
Personally, I am only using about 20% of the M3 so will probably change to the G8 and let someone 'better' have the pleasure of the M3 - like I said, it depends on what you want it to do.

[Synthoid]

I have had a look at the G8, and it is VERY impressive, essentially the M3 with a computer added

Essentially the M3 without Karma maybe......oh wait--no Radias EXB either.....anything else?

[eibbor]

Well, for anyone who is interested:

I went for my little mission today. Tried out a Fantom G8, M3 61 and 88 key versions, and a Yamaha Motif XS8.

My impressions:

- The G8's interface was the most familiar, coming from a Juno-G. The screen is pretty amazing. The sounds are also pretty good. As with the Juno-G, I found the usable synthy tones a bit lacking. If I were to get that, I'd have to do major tinkering (like I am now) to get the sounds to where I like them. But, I didn't like a few things about it. The prices of all the models were higher than their Korg and Yamaha equivalents. The weighted hammer-action keybed felt very heavy. I'm sure some will love it, but having never owned, or really played piano, I found myself struggling a fair bit. I never really noticed how often I use "smears" in my playing, but they definitely work better with synth action. And it's bloody huge as well. Almost as big as the OASYS they had sitting there. It was definitely impressive, but somehow I generally expected "more".

- The Motif XS8... the keybed felt nicer. Not as heavy. Basically as everyone has said, the acoustic sounds were great, the synth ones were alright, and the interface was rather intimidating. Again, the thing is huge. Actually as big as the OASYS right next to it. There's no way I'm hauling something that big to and from practice every week.

- So, the M3. I liked the 88 key version quite a bit, but it's also big. And I preferred the synth action of the 61 key version. Perfectly weighted, really quick, slightly springy... basically ideal for my preferences. Between the 3, the sounds provided the best mix of everything I wanted. Scrolling through the Juno-G's patch list usually has me thinking "boy, I'll never use that, or that, or that, or that...". I got a similar sensation with the Fantom, and to a lesser extent the MotifXS. Almost every preset I tried on the M3 had me thinking "That would work great in this song, etc..."

The interface was completely unfamiliar to me, but the touchscreen is just awesome. It strikes me as the most logical way of navigating a workstation. It wasn't as pretty as the Fantom's huge colour screen, but I don't think anything currently available can even come close to matching that. Upon trying the Fantom after the M3, I kept pounding on the screen with my finger wondering why nothing was happening. It looks pretty easy to learn, though. Just a matter of getting used to it.

KARMA is worth mentioning. I'll admit, I never really got all the fuss about it. I always thought "yep, pretty cool, but what do you even need the keyboard player for anymore?". Well, I was off my ass. Seems you can kind of make it do as much or as little as you want it to. It startled me a few times going through the preset list (on the presets where it's automatically enabled), but I actually found myself improvising to a few things it spat out. I never improvise. I usually suck at it. And yet, KARMA brought something out in me. Not only would it be a great practicing tool, it might well help me come up with some new song ideas. So, with respect to KARMA... I get it now.

The controls were by far the best out of the three, IMO. I never use the D-beam on my Juno-G, and I doubt I'd ever really use it on a Fantom. The lack of a joystick on the Motif sucked. I never realized how much I got used to having one. The M3's controls were great. The joystick felt better to me than the Fantom's... smoother, and being able to go down in the y-axis was nice. And the ribbon controller strikes me as much more useful than the D-beam.

So, enough beating around the bush: It looks like I prefer the M3. I honestly expected to like the Fantom G more. Guess not. So, I'm thinking in a month or so when I have enough money, I'll have to pick up a 73 key M3 with the RADIAS expansion board.

Thanks for your help!