Importing midi, and converting to style problem

[rikkisbears]

Hi Rob,
in regards to the file having to be in the Key of C ( for Intro1), either it's not written in the PA800 manual or I've just plain missed it. Which section of the PA2x manual is it in? it may give me a rough idea of where to find it in my PA800 manual.
Only reason I'm asking is that it's additional work transposing a midifile to the key of C or Cm.

best wishes
Rikki

[quote="Rob Sherratt]

Details (from the manual) as follows:

The SMF file must be in the key of C before importing it.

[Rob Sherratt]

Hi Rob,
in regards to the file having to be in the Key of C ( for Intro1), either it's not written in the PA800 manual or I've just plain missed it. Which section of the PA2x manual is it in? it may give me a rough idea of where to find it in my PA800 manual.
Only reason I'm asking is that it's additional work transposing a midifile to the key of C or Cm.

best wishes
Rikki

[quote="Rob Sherratt]

Details (from the manual) as follows:

The SMF file must be in the key of C before importing it.

Hi Rikki,

The SMF file will be replayed in the key you recorded it in and will be transposed relative to a base of C to any chord that you hold down on the arranger (if you have allowed the intro to transpose). Just like the Korg Intro2 patterns that can be pitch shifted if you want to play chords while the Intro is playing. If you do not record the intro in C then you will get strange effects when playing live. This info is not in the Korg manual, but is from experimenting.

[Sam CA]

[quote="Rob Sherratt]

Details (from the manual) as follows:

The SMF file must be in the key of C before importing it.[/quote]Hi Rikki,

The SMF file will be replayed in the key you recorded it in and will be transposed relative to a base of C to any chord that you hold down on the arranger (if you have allowed the intro to transpose). Just like the Korg Intro2 patterns that can be pitch shifted if you want to play chords while the Intro is playing. If you do not record the intro in C then you will get strange effects when playing live. This info is not in the Korg manual, but is from experimenting.[/quote]

hey Rob,
i have to agree with Rikki, because i just did an experiment and it actully works in any key. You do not have to tranpose your midi file to the key of C or Cm. Let's say if your midi file is in the key of Abm. If you set the elements of your styles (intro..fills..var..) to Abm or Ab, or whatever, pa 800 will transpose everything based on the key of Ab when you're playing live. However, if you do not do that correctly, the default mode is based on the key of C, and that's when you're gonna hear strange stuff happening. This is all with my first experiment, so it might turn out to be not true later on.

[Rob Sherratt]

hey Rob,
i have to agree with Rikki, because i just did an experiment and it actully works in any key. You do not have to tranpose your midi file to the key of C or Cm. Let's say if your midi file is in the key of Abm. If you set the elements of your styles (intro..fills..var..) to Abm or Ab, or whatever, pa 800 will transpose everything based on the key of Ab when you're playing live. However, if you do not do that correctly, the default mode is based on the key of C, and that's when you're gonna hear strange stuff happening. This is all with my first experiment, so it might turn out to be not true later on.

I've learned something new from you and Rikki. Thanks for setting me straight!

[rikkisbears]

Hi Rob,
I think discussions are good, obviously we're all learning stuff thru each other.
best wishes
Rikki

I've learned something new from you and Rikki. Thanks for setting me straight!

[Sam CA]

Hi Rob,
I think discussions are good, obviously we're all learning stuff thru each other.
best wishes
Rikki

I've learned something new from you and Rikki. Thanks for setting me straight!

ok, another question again!

I'm working on "Fill 1". It's only 2 measure in 6/8. I wrote it in pro tools and it sounds great. But when i import it i can't hear the brass, although all the settings are right.

the brass track starts with a very low volume, and it swells to a high volume at the end of the measure (just 2 continuous notes layered on top of each other) and at the beginning of measure 2 there's a brass hit. A common brass phrase. For some reason when i import this fill, it doesn't read the brass at all, but if i remove the volume change info, then it reads it. Why is that? volume changes aren't allowed when importing midi files to elements? ..anyways, i then tried to import it without the crescendo, and do it manually, but how do you create crescendo in PA 800?

my other question is about fills's function. If a fill is only 1 measure, than as the keyboard is playing the fill, if you choose a "Var" then it will go to that var at the end of the measure. So you will get your complete 1 measure Fill, even though you pressed a "var button" during the Fill. But what if you have a longer Fill..let's say 2 bars...can you program the fill so it won't get interrupted by Var at the end of measure 1? So it will go through the complete cycle of the Fill, and then to a "var" even though you pressed a "var button" at the beginning of the fill?

[Rob Sherratt]

Hi Sam,

I can tell from your posts that you are a very gifted musician and it's a pleasure to correspond with you as well as with many other talented people on this forum like Rikki.

I know that special controls and especially expression (volume) changes are supported in the Intro sequences but may cause import to fail. Many factory Intros use a lot of special controls, bends, glides etc. I think Korg must prepare and import their factory Intros using some special software that is not part of the on-board OS, and that is how they get the special Midi controls in. I have tried exporting factory Intros and several of them will not import properly into new styles. I agree that it is disappointing that a track such as your brass track that uses single notes with progressive expression (volume change) is not imported by the OS. I hope maybe this import algorithm will be improved in a future OS, maybe we should ask Paolo if he can comment ? I think a key requirement is that an exported Factory Intro should be imported correctly when the user creates a new style and imports a saved Factory Intro. Anyway in the meantime you can add the progressive expression/ volume control messages one at a time using Step Edit. It is laborious but it does work.

Another thought - Intros if loaded to Intro2 are normally designed so the user can play a chord progression during the intro if required. If your Intro only has one or two notes spread among several bars, then the harmony may not change quickly enough when the user plays a different chord during the intro, and you may end up with unwanted dischords sounding. It may be worth building up the crescendo by playing several tied crotchets (assuming 6/8 time), each progressively louder. Then the same Intro could be loaded into Intro2 if you wish, and chord progressions will work.

[rikkisbears]

Hi Sam,
are you using controller 11 Expression ? or controller 7 volume.
Trying to think back, my SD1 Orch Slow style has a fade on strings in the break. I'm fairly certain I put the style together as a midifile import not an EMC conversion as I had to redo all the drum tracks, plus EMC would have removed all the tempo changes in the Intro.
So you should be able to do a fade, but with expression controller11.

Secondly,
I think you may need to press the vari button after the fill has played past the 1st bar, not at the begginning.
[quote="Assyrianpianist"]

ok, another question again!

[Sam CA]

Hi Sam,

I know that special controls and especially expression (volume) changes are supported in the Intro sequences but may cause import to fail. Many factory Intros use a lot of special controls, bends, glides etc. I think Korg must prepare and import their factory Intros using some special software that is not part of the on-board OS, and that is how they get the special Midi controls in. I have tried exporting factory Intros and several of them will not import properly into new styles. I agree that it is disappointing that a track such as your brass track that uses single notes with progressive expression (volume change) is not imported by the OS. I hope maybe this import algorithm will be improved in a future OS, maybe we should ask Paolo if he can comment ? I think a key requirement is that an exported Factory Intro should be imported correctly when the user creates a new style and imports a saved Factory Intro. Anyway in the meantime you can add the progressive expression/ volume control messages one at a time using Step Edit. It is laborious but it does work.

Another thought - Intros if loaded to Intro2 are normally designed so the user can play a chord progression during the intro if required. If your Intro only has one or two notes spread among several bars, then the harmony may not change quickly enough when the user plays a different chord during the intro, and you may end up with unwanted dischords sounding. It may be worth building up the crescendo by playing several tied crotchets (assuming 6/8 time), each progressively louder. Then the same Intro could be loaded into Intro2 if you wish, and chord progressions will work.

hi Rob, thanks man. I'm basically trying to see how musical you can actually get with this arranger. You're right. I tried to add crescendo and it worked with intro 1, but it's not working with Fills, and so i'm guessing that for the same reasons it won't work with "Vars" either, but i'll find out about that.

I know what you mean about stretching large note values across bars ..but in this case, it was just a 2 bar fill with the same chord and i really could use that crescendo!!! But i'll try your suggestion about cutting the notes into smaller values , it might work with some patches.

It would be awesome if you can ask your friend Paolo. It would be greatly appreciated.

[Sam CA]

Hi Sam,
are you using controller 11 Expression ? or controller 7 volume.
Trying to think back, my SD1 Orch Slow style has a fade on strings in the break. I'm fairly certain I put the style together as a midifile import not an EMC conversion as I had to redo all the drum tracks, plus EMC would have removed all the tempo changes in the Intro.
So you should be able to do a fade, but with expression controller11.

Secondly,
I think you may need to press the vari button after the fill has played past the 1st bar, not at the begginning.

ok, another question again!

Rikki,

well, I tried it with a Volume change, so that would be CC#7. I didn't try expression, may be i should give that a try and see if that did this for me.

I didn't find any menu to program the Fill , so i think that only option would be to wait until the fill has entered its last measure, and then you'd have to press "Var"..otherwise, it would get interrupted.

Yes, i have some more questions coming up your way! lol...actually here's one:

how do you adjust the volume of pads against the style tracks. In other words how do you mix the levels of the pads within a style if they're too loud, or too low? I didnt' see any volume sliders for them, so i thought i go back to the record/edit pad page, because i'd seen a volume slider in there, but after couple of tries, i found out that " this value is not saved with the pad", so how this can be done then?

[rikkisbears]

Hi Sam,
definately has to be expression.
Volume is global for each of the style tracks ie if accomp 1 is set to volume 80, all the accomp 1's ie variations , fills etc will be set to volume 80.
Only way you can alter the volume between all the accomp 1's would be to alter the expression value for any tracks that need to be louder or softer..
If you happen to have an Expression fade in or out on one of those accomp.1 tracks and it's overall too loud or too soft,, the easier thing to do then would be to alter the velocity of the track, ( up or down) rather than try and alter a heap of expression controllers.

You alter Expression via
Style Element track controls page.
There's even a monitor that glows red if there's additional
Expression data in a track

Can your sequencer change it from Controller 7 to 11??


Sorry , must have misread earlier
to program your fill is done on the main arranger page NOT in style edit mode

Just Press
Menu Button
Style Control Icon & Choose your settings for each of the fills.

Off the top of my head , I can't remember how to save the setting permanently, maybe via saving as Current performance, if not I'll have to get back to you. I'm fairly certain it's done per style not globally.

best wishes
Rikki

ok, another question again!

Rikki,

well, I tried it with a Volume change, so that would be CC#7. I didn't try expression, may be i should give that a try and see if that did this for me.

I didn't find any menu to program the Fill , so i think that only option would be to wait until the fill has entered its last measure, and then you'd have to press "Var"..otherwise, it would get interrupted.

Yes, i have some more questions coming up your way! lol[/quote]

[nikola81]

how do you adjust the volume of pads against the style tracks. In other words how do you mix the levels of the pads within a style if they're too loud, or too low? I didnt' see any volume sliders for them, so i thought i go back to the record/edit pad page, because i'd seen a volume slider in there, but after couple of tries, i found out that " this value is not saved with the pad", so how this can be done then?

In the style play mode hold shift and press one of the pads, it's gonna open the page where you can set volume for each pad and also fx send levels and pan settings, the pad settings are saved with the style, i use write style perf option. (And don't forget to unlock pad in global)

[Sam CA]

how do you adjust the volume of pads against the style tracks. In other words how do you mix the levels of the pads within a style if they're too loud, or too low? I didnt' see any volume sliders for them, so i thought i go back to the record/edit pad page, because i'd seen a volume slider in there, but after couple of tries, i found out that " this value is not saved with the pad", so how this can be done then?

In the style play mode hold shift and press one of the pads, it's gonna open the page where you can set volume for each pad and also fx send levels and pan settings, the pad settings are saved with the style, i use write style perf option. (And don't forget to unlock pad in global)

You're the man...that's right. I just remembered that in the CD tutorial that came with the keyboard, they mentioned that if you hold down shift and press anything , the relevant window will pop up. So "shift +" is more like a short cut to menues...thanks