Korg Oasys discontinued as of July 2008 (?)

[Count2Four123]

So, the talk is out that our beloved OASYS will be discontinued ?! On the danger of being flamed and roasted on this forum, i want to give you a couple of my thoughts - thoughts that have been dwelling in me for quite a while...

I know, it's not very appreciated on this and other forums to speak out your opinion, but since i don't see the KORG guys as almighty gods (yes, they are just people, like you and me), i dare to criticize.

Okay, let's face the facts: We always knew that this day would come, most likely sooner than later. Personally i am not very happy if this decision turns out to be true, because - as i always stated in the past - the OASYS was sold to me on the idea that this was some kind of open environment solution, where third party developers would contribute to the system. Of course, his never happened (except for the KARO stuff). And when i look back now i feel that i never really got from KORG what was promised to me in the first place.

I don't want to sound unthankful, the OASYS is a mighty fine instrument, but what DID we receive in the end ? Part of the (incomplete) LEGACY collection, overpriced in a way (when you compare it to the VST and AU versions). The FM thingie ... okay we had that in the DX7 since a long time ago. The Brass Library - which was a good one... again, only available for a substantial price.

Look for a comparison to what the M3 users received - for free - as a present ... a mighty new preset bank ! How many was it ? Like 500 new presets ?? Jesus Christ, that's what an OASYS user can only dream about. Also, the M3 users can stick the RADIAS in their workstations butt - easy breezy - and make it an even more powerful instrument, for a very reasonable price. Makes you kind of sick, when you think about it for to long.

The big question for me is: What does the future bring ? Do the guys at KORG really believe that all the good people who spent their precious money for the original OASYS will just say "Nice deal, they treated us well, now let's buy the OASYS 2 !" ??? I mean, wait a minute...

It's exactly like i predicted in a thread many month ago: The KORG had major flaws in the OASYS project from the beginning. A weak and obviously non-upgradeable processor. Limited hard-disc space. From what i read in various threads here and on the Karma Forum, all the electronic stuff inside the OASYS is supposed to be old s**t by now. An inbuilt sequencer, that 90 % of the OASYS users neglect. The list could go on, you all know the points.

Then it sounds like it is impossibe to give us that autoload function for the KARO libraries... or more bank space ... This must be a joke! A bad one. If it wasn't for the KARO guys and their ongoing high quality output for the OASYS, i would feel not very good with what i received from KORG until today. Only WITH the KARO stuff, this workstation is a complete production house !!! So, don't tell me you can't implement that stuff. We know it's a lame excuse. Try harder !

Here's my counter-proposal: Instead of showing us your middlefinger, the guys at KORG should rethink their policy and show us their respect. We have all invested massively in this workstation ... not all of us are superstars like HERBIE HANCOCK and JORDAN RUDESS, who have enough money to just not care. I propose that KORG gets their best people together and work out a solution to offer us, your financers, an upgrade for our OASYS to the next level ... call it OASYS 2 or whatever you want ! Yes, we want the faster quad-core processor, a better sequencer, more banks, more sounds and more combis, more karma all over the place, new libraries and the possibility to treat KARO banks just like any KORG enhancement wthin the OASYS. We all know that this is possible, it just needs a little effort ! I will be the first to pay some good money for this upgrade ! How much can that be ? A thousand bucks ? A thousand five hundred ? Two thousand ? I'm willing to pay even that, but only if you make that feeling go away that you don't care about us with all that company policy bla bla bla. Nobody needs that. I want to see a future with KORG. Give me what i want and not what you think i should want and we will make wonderful business together in the future.

Okay, that's my five per cent. I could go on for a while, but i'm busy with earning a living, so i will stop for now. Excuse my bad english, it's not my native language.

Keep on rockin !

T.

[danatkorg]

Count2Four123 sounds unhappy in his message, and I'm truly sorry about that. I'd like to reply to a few of his factual assertions.

the OASYS was sold to me on the idea that this was some kind of open environment solution, where third party developers would contribute to the system. Of course, his never happened (except for the KARO stuff). And when i look back now i feel that i never really got from KORG what was promised to me in the first place.

I'm sorry that someone (your salesman?) told this to you, but Korg has never promised third-party development for the OASYS.

I don't want to sound unthankful, the OASYS is a mighty fine instrument, but what DID we receive in the end ? Part of the (incomplete) LEGACY collection, overpriced in a way (when you compare it to the VST and AU versions).

Daz may have something to say here; he's commented on this in the past.

Briefly, the synthesis capabilities of the LAC-1 go far beyond the software Legacy collection - which if memory serves originally sold for $499, twice the price of the LAC-1. For details, see the LAC-1 docs. The OASYS Wave Sequencing runs circles around the Wavestation, and of course the HD-1 is far beyond the M1.

The FM thingie ... okay we had that in the DX7 since a long time ago.

Those familiar with the DX7 will understand that the MOD-7 is a completely different animal, with its combination of FM, waveshaping, ring modulation, PCM processing, audio input processing, VA filters, and modular topology. It's much more like an improved version of Kurzweil's "VAST," with Korg's own special sauce.

Look for a comparison to what the M3 users received - for free - as a present ... a mighty new preset bank ! How many was it ? Like 500 new presets ?? Jesus Christ, that's what an OASYS user can only dream about. Also, the M3 users can stick the RADIAS in their workstations butt - easy breezy - and make it an even more powerful instrument, for a very reasonable price. Makes you kind of sick, when you think about it for to long.

Since the release of the instrument, here's what OASYS users have received for free:

The STR-1 physical modeling synth
Increased polyphony for AL-1 and STR-1
KARMA 2.1, including user GEs
2 GB RAM support
Chord mode
EXi audio input
AMS Mixer "Gate"
Smoothing for Tone Adjust
Poly unison
Max # of notes control
Load/unload of EXs without restart
Lossless compression of EXs samples
Other small goodies like EXi 1/2 transpose, step sequencer attack/decay smoothing, half damper enable/disable, etc.

Additionally, we've released the following paid options, all at prices that are significantly below standard plug-in prices for other hardware (compare plug-ins for the TC Powercore, UAD-1, Pro Tools, etc.):
PolysixEX
MS-20EX
MOD-7
EXs3

And, we've also released approximately 1,000 new Programs using the above new EXi and EXs.

Best regards,

Dan

[billysynth1]

All I know is that once upon a time I owned 2 x Kurzweil K2600X's - I literally had one for each hand, one for my left hand parts, and the other for my right hand parts. Each K2600x cost me $10,000 Australian. That's $20 thou for two synths that i bought round about 2000.

The Oasys cost me $10,500 Aust in 2005 ( i got a good deal the recommended price at initial release here in Australia for 88keys was $15,000 )

The two Kurzweils at $20K have no holding or come anywhere near the O that cost me half the price with significantly more processing power, superiour sounds etc etc.

I love my Big O and it sits in the same room as my Yamaha C1 Grand Piano.

For me, paying $250 for an Expansion Upgrade is peanuts - I have all the expansions and love them all... cant wait for 1.4

Didnt know MOD 7 was that powerfull - an improved version of Kurzweils VAST with extra topping...mmmm. Go over to SonikMatter they are always bragging about VAST and its superiority over any other synthesis out there and that nothing comes close to it even after so many years.

Anyway, whether you pay, $3K, or $10K for a workstation, everybody has some sort of gripe... go over to Roland Clan and read about the G8, its being bashed for its sounds, for this, for that, go to Yamaha Motif Forum same crappola happening there... we buy it and then we hammer it lol

Have a laugh
Billy

[danatkorg]

Didnt know MOD 7 was that powerfull - an improved version of Kurzweils VAST with extra topping...mmmm. Go over to SonikMatter they are always bragging about VAST and its superiority over any other synthesis out there and that nothing comes close to it even after so many years.

There are some cool people on Sonikmatter, and I've had some good discussions with them over the years. One of them was related to this topic; I've quoted it below. Most of VAST's functions have to do with filters, amp and panning, ring modulation, and nonlinearity and distortion (like waveshaping). All of those functions are also covered by the MOD-7. VAST does do a few things that the MOD-7 does not, such as comb filtering; on the other hand, the MOD-7 has unique tricks up its sleeve, as well. One of them is simply horsepower, as shown in the following quote:

http://community.sonikmatter.com/forums ... ntry222379

(Dave Weiser @ Sep 20 2007, 11:49 AM)
Dynamic VAST:

I've already posted about the flexible wiring system - you can create and store your own algs. You'll get 4 "boxes" worth of DSP, each with its own assignable parameters. (Slightly more than the 2 +1 boxes on a K26) You can have 2 2-poles, or a killer 4-pole, or any other combination, on each layer. You can decide how many inputs and outputs each box has and you can select parallel or serial configuration.

And remember, you get 32 layers per program, each with its own mods, envelopes, ASRs, LFOs, FUNs, etc. If the other guys tried this, their machines would catch fire.

The PC3 sounds like it will be a big upgrade over the K2600 on this score. Very cool!

Since you brought up "the other guys," I thought I'd look into this from the perspective of the MOD-7, which you commented on in another thread.

Each VPM oscillator in the MOD-7 includes a sine oscillator with FM inputs and feedback, a waveshaper with selectable tables and variable drive and offset, simple lowpass and highpass filers, ring modulation, and gain (plus lots of modulation). They can both generate signal, and process it from elsewhere; the oscillator can be disabled if you only want waveshaping and/or ring mod. Translating this roughly into the K2xxx world, using the SAW+ -> SHAPER trick for FM and the 2PARAM SHAPER to approximate the flexibility of the tables, this comes out to something like:

SAW+ -> SHAPER -> LOPASS -> 2PARAM SHAPER (double block) -> HIPASS -> x AMP

So, that's 7 VAST blocks per VPM oscillator. The MOD-7 has 6 VPM oscillators, for a total of 42 VAST blocks.

MOD-7 has both a PCM oscillator and a noise generator, available simultaneously. The noise generator has saturation and a dedicated lowpass filter, something like NOISE+ -> DIST -> LOPASS, for 3 VAST blocks.

There are also two multimode (LP/HP/BP/Notch) resonant filters, which can optionally be combined into a single four-pole multimode resonant filter. This is either 3 or 4 VAST blocks: 3 for four-pole, or 4 for dual 2-pole.

There are three 2-input mixers, with modulatable gain for each input: call it +GAIN, for 3 blocks.

All of the above are freely patchable, in any order or combination, via cables on the patch panel.

The main output mixer has 6 modulatable inputs, each with modulatable pan. I'll leave out the gain aspect; let's call that 6 PANNER blocks.

There are other audio functions elsewhere, such as final amp and pan control, EQ, and so on. I'll leave those out for now. There are also 10 envelopes, 9 key tracking generators, 8 AMS Mixers (similar to FUNs), 4 per-voice LFOs, and a per-voice step sequencer (plus per-Program "common" LFO and Step Sequencer).

Total VAST blocks to approximate the MOD-7: 42 + 3 + (3 or 4) + 3 + 6 = 57 or 58, depending on filter structure. It sounds like the PC3 could do this by combining 15 layers together, each doing 4 blocks, in the new expanded Triple Modular-style architecture. The PC3's base polyphony is 128 voices, so this means the polyphony goes down to 128/15, or about 8 and a half voices.

Normal polyphony of the OASYS MOD-7: 52 voices. That may go down a bit if *all* functions are in use. You can also load two MOD-7s together in a single Program, which will cut polyphony in half of course.

As I've said before, I think Kurzweil makes neat synths. I'm sure that the PC3 will be a great addition to their line, and I look forward to seeing it and hearing it (and hopefully meeting Dave in person at NAMM!).

- Dan

[Kontrol49]

So on that inventory of What Korg has given the Oasys since its Production run is one to assume that this is all there is to expect???Given there has been little to suggest otherwise that production/support has now ceased or deny/support the rumours!

Or is there more developments in the balance for the current model or a New prototype making this a Now Obsolete Oasys Paperweight??
Whilst nobody has the right to demand answers and Korgs R+D is secret would be nice to hear some rumblings or not from the Korg camp...

I never bought this Oasys on a false pretence,but I respect its strengths and whats been commisioned into it so far, but I certainly expected more support/Development from Korg over the course of its life.in its present state it resembles nothing more than a Triton on steriods??At the least surely there are more Sound Engines that could be hosted within it??

[AnthonyB]

surely there are more Sound Engines that could be hosted within it??

That made me laugh a bit when I looked at your gear in your sig:) - surely you (personally), wouldn't be in need of more sounds - would you?.....




AnthonyB

[Kevin Nolan]

Here's a thought -

Whenever OASYS does eventually retire; how's about we organise a party, say six months later (to give everyone time to plan) to celebrate it?

We could hire a hotel function room during the next NAMM after it retires, and as many of us as is possible make our way there to meet up for some actual face to face slagging off, eh, I mean salutations!

Better still - how about Korg run an OASYS users postmortem meeting where we can discuss and debate the future of the hardware synthesizer and of the workstation. Perhaps even invite key speakers to give presentations and open their ideas to the floor for analysis/discussion.

It would even set down a marker to the broader electronic music world that we mean what we say in valuing this unique instrument and believe in its future, however that pans out.

(I remember Yamaha announcing in their original ad for the SY77 that they'd hold a party for it at the turn of the new millennium. Alas that party never happened)!

Vivat OASYS

[Sharp]

Hi Kevin.

Many moons ago we actually talked about doing something like this when KF was under the name Irish Acts. I was going to hire a Hotel Ball Room for a weekend, KORG UK would come over to Ireland, and Bear and I would organise hotels and bus from the Airport for everyone.

Never happened obviously, but it's something we could very easily do if people where interested at some point. Doesn't have to be Ireland either.

Regards.
Sharp.

[mdh]

Here's a thought -

Whenever OASYS does eventually retire; how's about we organise a party, say six months later (to give everyone time to plan) to celebrate it?

Sorry mate I'm busy in the second half of 2014 but good luck with the logistics

[razzaq1]

Hey Sharp,
I remember when that 'get together' idea was floated.

I think it might be a good idea to see if local folk would want to get together, say, in their own County.

(i.e. less money to shell out for travel = more likelihood of it happening!)

It's just an idea.

We'd need a list for locations.

Cheers,

Rob

[t_tangent]

I'm in Essex England if that helps, so anyone want to organise one near here let me know

[razzaq1]

I'm in Berkshire.

I'll start a thread over at KLF asking Stephen Kay if he wants to start a 'Location List' (over at KLF because they already have the 'Good/Evil Twin' list there.

[MrT-Man]

So on that inventory of What Korg has given the Oasys since its Production run is one to assume that this is all there is to expect???Given there has been little to suggest otherwise that production/support has now ceased or deny/support the rumours!

Or is there more developments in the balance for the current model or a New prototype making this a Now Obsolete Oasys Paperweight??

How's about we hold off on bitching at Korg until a) the time comes that they tell us that development for the Oasys has stopped; or b) 12-18 months go by with no new OS updates etc. (since it seems like it's an annual release cycle). Given that it's clearly their policy to not comment on future plans, it makes sense to give them the benefit of the doubt (at least for now) rather than continuously assuming the worst.

For what it's worth, Stephen Kay said on the KL forum that the Oasys has not and is not being discontinued in the very near future, to the best of his knowledge.

[EJ2]

If the OASYS is discontinued tomorrow or next week (which I seriously doubt), I really don't care. I'm just thankful I found a way to put one in my studio when I did.

Look folks, I don't believe Korg has invested so much R&D into the OASYS just to walk away from it. A similar notion can be said for many OASYS owners - we have invested so much into it to abandon this awesome workstation. I expect to continue using my OASYS as the center piece of my studio for many more years to come.

We all know the Triton line had an excellent run. Yes, we have the M3 at a similar price point, but I wouldn't be surprised to see our beloved OASYS or versions thereof continue well into the future.

Cheers,
Eric

[Davidb]

How's about we hold off on bitching at Korg until a) the time comes that they tell us that development for the Oasys has stopped; or b) 12-18 months go by with no new OS updates etc. (since it seems like it's an annual release cycle).

For what it's worth, Stephen Kay said on the KL forum that the Oasys has not and is not being discontinued in the very near future, to the best of his knowledge.

Also, remember as well that Dan said not long a go that they are working right NOW on the next OASYS update, so it comes to show that the Oasys is not discontinued this summer nor there will be a new OASYS around the corner.

Besides, a new OASYS? What for?
This instrument, in its current incarnition, hasnt reached its full potential yet, and (except for its limited Sequencer in some areas and some other things everybody its aware of by now) theres nothing form Korg or other manufacturers that come even close to some of its shining capabilities, and its unique ability to be upgraded, a plattform able to grow in the future.

Its easy to understand that some people expected more growth for the OASYS architecture in those years, but remember that its gonna be upgraded at least once more, and there is still time and capacity for more in the future if Korg wants to.

Regards