Why is the Korg Oasys so expensive?

[GiveItATry]

I am thinking lately of buying a new workstation but I cant make up my mind.

Why is the Korg Oasys so expensive?

It is supposed to be a workstation, which means that a musician can finish all of his projects and burn a CD. Right?
I dont think so... Here is why. I recently took a look at the specifications of the Roland G and its SEQUENCER. For example Roland's SEQUENCER has 128 Midi Tracks (!!!) and 24 Audio tracks while Korg Oasys has only... 16!!! How can someone finish a project using only 16 midi trackis??? I am not a minimalist. I like rich and beautiful projects with a lot of sounds and effects and at least 30 midi tracks.
Some other specifications of the Roland G are:
Note Capacity per one project approx. 1,000,000 notes (Oasys only 400,000)
Tempo 5.00 to 300.00
Resolution 480 TPQN
And the Roland G costs only $3,200!!!

Why should I pay Korg about $10,000? For its HD-1 High Definition Synth? For its Vector Synthesis and Wave Sequencing? For its AL-1 Analog Synth? Or for its CX-3 Modeled Tonewheel Organ and the Karma Technology? Do these things really worth $10,000???

[sirCombatWombat]

I honestly suggest you browse this forum a bit more, all these questions have been discussed many times over and you can find plenty of opinions for and against. Unfortunately this kind of conversation has a tendency to upset few people so some of the threads may be longish.

[steve m]

Really the Oasys is not that expensive compared to other keyboards on the market. Here in Australia Oasys prices have dropped and the O76 now retails for $6250 in some stores. ( I bought mine when they cost a lot more than that, but I don't regret one dollar of it ! )

I'm not suggesting that technically the Oasys should be compared to an arranger keyboard as it's a completely different beast, but price wise how does this work ? -There are still music stores advertising the now discontinued Roland G70 for the same price, and the Korg PA2X and Yamaha Tyros 2 are even higher! Arrangers that cost more than the all singing, all dancing Oasys - now that's expensive!

I know that the retail market in USA is different than here in Oz, and usually USA prices are much cheaper. I think if you really wanted an Oasys you would find a good deal somewhere.

[lcmorley]

Korg Oasys has only... 16[/b]!!! How can someone finish a project using only 16 midi trackis???

The Oasys may only have 16 midi tracks, but also has 16 audio tracks. Also has Sampling and Re-sampling capabilities, so you could record 16 midi tracks using all 12 effects, then bounce all down to 2 stereo audio tracks, and have a further 14 tracks at your disposal, along with 12 fresh effects. Potantially, you could do that an infinate amount of times. So 16 tracks is more than enough in my opinion.

If you can use more than 400,000 notes of midi in one track I would be amazed. I used to have 9,000 notes in my old technics keyboards 10 years ago, and I could never make use of that much.

I have only just invested in an O, and it will be arriving on Saturday.

I did try the Fantom G88, but found the sound to be rubbish in comparison to the O. I also found the interface to be far too clunky, so did not get on with it at all. I have always used Korg gear, and in my opinion you cannot beat it. I was convinced I was going to go for the Fantom when it came out in January, but now I have tried it there is no comparison.

Just compare the G88 piano sound with the O 500+MB piano sound. There is no comparison as far as I am concerned.

Having said all of this. If you don't know why the O is so expensive, then it is simply not meant for you, and the G is probably more up your street.

[MIDIguru]

Why is the Korg Oasys so expensive?

It's a premium product for those wanting something unique. It's a no compromise (Korg didn't cut corners) system. I'd say most of the cost is in the development of the OS. I'm sure it was not cheap to rebuild everything from the ground up and get it to run on Intel hardware.

It is supposed to be a workstation, which means that a musician can finish all of his projects and burn a CD. Right?
I dont think so... Here is why. I recently took a look at the specifications of the Roland G and its SEQUENCER. For example Roland's SEQUENCER has 128 Midi Tracks (!!!) and 24 Audio tracks while Korg Oasys has only... 16!!! How can someone finish a project using only 16 midi trackis??? I am not a minimalist. I like rich and beautiful projects with a lot of sounds and effects and at least 30 midi tracks.

The Fantom-G can still only play back 16 MIDI channels (without the ARX expansions which add 2 additional parts; drums and EPs). While the Fantom may have 24 audio tracks, what they don't tell you is that they cut into the 128 voices of polyphony and with only 512MB of recording space you can only record 512/10MB per stereo minute=50 minutes of audio/24 tracks = 2.5 minutes of 24 stereo track audio. And that's assuming you load no samples because the sampler and audio tracks share the same RAM. Also, if you tend to do a few takes your record time is going to plummet. Assuming you can live with these limitations, you now need to worry about load/save times, which are slow. You could spend 5-10 minutes loading the 512MB of ram and another 5-10 minutes for a save.

As a recorder it has a slick user interface, but there are no EQs on any of the MIDI channels or audio tracks. There are only 2 inputs and a single fantom powered mic input (no stereo condensor mic recording as on the Oasys).

There is no CD burner either and no built-in storage (such as a hard disk).

How can someone finish a project using only 16 midi trackis???

You could record 16 MIDI channels and bounce them to 2 of the audio tracks, now you've got 16 more channels. You can do this 8 times before you run out of audio tracks, then bounce and repeat forever. Since the O uses a hard disk for recording you probably won't hit the limit unless you record for a whole day.

Another option is to use the sample ram for audio tracks. If you dedicate 8 of the MIDI tracks to in-track sampling you've now got 32 tracks of audio. Very flexible.

Some other specifications of the Roland G are:
Note Capacity per one project approx. 1,000,000 notes (Oasys only 400,000)
Tempo 5.00 to 300.00
Resolution 480 TPQN
And the Roland G costs only $3,200!!!

Why should I pay Korg about $10,000? For its HD-1 High Definition Synth? For its Vector Synthesis and Wave Sequencing? For its AL-1 Analog Synth? Or for its CX-3 Modeled Tonewheel Organ and the Karma Technology? Do these things really worth $10,000???

The Oasys does not cost $10,000. Prices range from about $5,000 used to $7,500 new. Depends on how good a shopper you are. Why should you pay anyone $5,000 for something like the Oasys? Because it sounds so freakin good! And, it's not a fad instrument you will grow out of.

[MrT-Man]

Firstly, it's not $10 grand... (well, depending what country you're in).

Secondly, don't go by spec sheets. Spend an hour with each instrument and see for yourself which sounds better.

Thirdly, you're focusing on the sequencer & recording capabilities. These aren't it's strong point or the reason most people get an Oasys. Most people do get it for the other reasons you listed off (the HD-1, CX-3, Karma, etc, and more importantly the integration between all of these components).

[Mike Conway]

Why should I pay Korg about $10,000? For its HD-1 High Definition Synth? For its Vector Synthesis and Wave Sequencing? For its AL-1 Analog Synth? Or for its CX-3 Modeled Tonewheel Organ and the Karma Technology? Do these things really worth $10,000???

Like people said - more like half that price. But, I think you answered your own question just listing all those combined features. Even so, that is only a partial list, so add to those the STR-1 Physical modeller, the PolySix, MS20 and MOD-7 FM synth.

How can someone finish a project using only 16 midi trackis???

Here are some examples:

RC-IA's song

I recently posted this ORCHESTRAL song, which was all done on the OASYS (along with some Karo String samples).

Here is a revamped trailer I scored, for EXILE.

[MauroR]

GiveATry you're telling about the Fantom G which has 128 midi tracks, but what do you do with all those tracks if you have only 128 notes of poliphony?
and just 512MB of sampling memory? I think that is the Fantom G that it's limited not the Oasys. You're not very informed.

[Davidb]

The argument about the OASYS and its SEQUENCER has been disscused a lot in the last recent years. Its clearly a crucial part of a workstation for many old and new users.

And Its true that in the editing area, mostly, is clearly behind synths like Fantom G and others.

Some people consider the sequencer implementation in the OASYS not the best it could be, thats a matter of fact that we all know at this point. Therefore, if you are after a workstation with a internal sequencer with more features than the OASYS has, is up tu you.

As others have pointed out very well, if the internal sequencer is important for you, look how both sequencers work, and what features has every one of them, and make your choice.

[Charlie]

It's that expensive because Korg charges that much. Either all the people having bought an Oasys are idiots with too much money left over for mediocre instruments ... or it must offer something to them, that justified the price.

I can't speak for others here - but when I had to decide 2 years ago I was looking and listening to Motifs, Tritons, Fantoms and the Oasys. The sound of the Oasys was a home-run.
I wouldn't buy it BECAUSE of its DAW-capabilities - there are more user-friendly sequencers and audio-recorders/software out there. But even though you can produce high quality music on it without the need of any external computers, audio interfaces etc.
Don't stick to the specs too much - open your ears and listen, try it out and get a feeling if an Oasys fits you and your needs. Many Oasys owners hardly switch on any of their other synths once they own Korgs "monster".
There are simple work arounds regarding 16 Midi + 16 Audio Tracks without loosing quality - so you don't have to worry about that. But this is mainly an issue for people who wouldnt use any external equipment/software (which I believe to be the minority). In case you're part of this minority, I can assure you, that it can be done well as I used to work that way for more than a year. But be prepared for a steep learning curve. The sequencer interface is far less userfriendly than current software and at the same time the Oasys is extremely flexible regarding its routing = many possibilities = much to learn.

[GiveItATry]

Thanks a lot guys for your replies.
But I still dont think that the HD-1 High Definition Synth, its Vector Synthesis and Wave Sequencing, its AL-1 Analog Synth, its CX-3 Modeled Tonewheel Organ and the Karma Technology should cost that much. There are so many pc sound libraries that are so much better and much cheapier.

When we are talking about the Oasys, we are talking about a WORKSTATION and NOT about just a SYNTHESIZER/SYNTHESIZERS. What is the use of workstation with ONLY 16 midi tracks? There was an answer given to that question from MIDIguru and I d like to ask him something...

How can someone finish a project using only 16 midi trackis???

You could record 16 MIDI channels and bounce them to 2 of the audio tracks, now you've got 16 more channels. You can do this 8 times before you run out of audio tracks, then bounce and repeat forever.

Another option is to use the sample ram for audio tracks. If you dedicate 8 of the MIDI tracks to in-track sampling you've now got 32 tracks of audio. Very flexible.

OK! Lets say that I want now to edit some of the 16 midi tracks (eg Tracks 4, 7, 11 and 15) that I have already bounced to 2 of the audio tracks. Lets say that I want to change the FX settings of each one seperately and add or delete some music events, how can I do that?

Wouldnt it be nicer and easier -and possible- to have more than 16 midi tracks without having to bounce and rebounce and rebounce and rebounce?

[tcornishmn]

Thanks a lot guys for your replies.
But I still dont think that the HD-1 High Definition Synth, its Vector Synthesis and Wave Sequencing, its AL-1 Analog Synth, its CX-3 Modeled Tonewheel Organ and the Karma Technology should cost that much. There are so many pc sound libraries that are so much better and much cheapier.

I'm not sure this is true. There is definitely software out there that is cheaper, but I'm not sure about better. You can read through 3 years of this forum to hear exactly why the Oasys sounds so good - extremely low aliasing oscillators, guaranteed polyphony, many sound models, etc.

The 16 MIDI tracks are what they are - some people want more than this, but it's probably never going to happen in this product. If this is really a requirement for you, then the Oasys will not do what you want.

Most (but not all) people use the Oasys with a computer for sequencing because there are a lot of computer-based sequencers that are better than the Oasys on-board sequencer.

The Oasys is a workstation - it can record MIDI, audio, sample, master, etc. all in the box. It may not do some of these functions to the depth you want, but that doesn't mean it's not a workstation.

By the way, there are about 4000 different opinions on what the term "workstation" means. I could demand that any "reasonable" workstation must have at least 3000 notes of polyphony, because when you're scoring an enormous orchestra, you might need 3000 parts playing all at the same time.

Your opinion is valid, and though many of us have asked for sequencer improvements over the last 3+ years, it hasn't happened yet, and likely won't as the machine has kind of stabilized as far as development goes. Maybe Korg will prove me wrong, but I would suggest that if the 16 MIDI tracks is the dealbreaker for you, you should put your money elsewhere.

On the quality and flexibilty of the sounds, I hope you spend more time digging around on the board, as I don't think you will find the depth, controlability, and cohesiveness of the Oasys in a pile of sample libraries, not to mention reliability.

[AnthonyB]

Most (but not all) people use the Oasys with a computer for sequencing because there are a lot of computer-based sequencers that are better than the Oasys on-board sequencer.

I suppose then, it can be argued that the limitations of the Sampling/memory/ram etc, of the Roland G series aren't an issue if "most Fantom G users use software sequencing too. so if the Fantom G falls WAY short of the OASYS on the Recording, memory etc, then "all is squared" if one users software. Not seen the full spec of the Fantoms' but are probablly more PC friendly too. Will the OASYS have a sequencer update?, I thought it would happen, honestly, but after about 3½ years, I'm beginning to have doubts now...

AnthonyB

[Mike Conway]

OK! Lets say that I want now to edit some of the 16 midi tracks (eg Tracks 4, 7, 11 and 15) that I have already bounced to 2 of the audio tracks. Lets say that I want to change the FX settings of each one seperately and add or delete some music events, how can I do that?

This can be accomplished by the OASYS version of "Freezing" and "Unfreezing". Every time you set up sounds and effects in your 16 MIDI tracks, you can leave them in that Song slot and either COPY TO or just OPEN a new Song slot. There are 200 Song slots and you can copy Audio/MIDI tracks from any or all of them. In other words, any MIDI setup and the associated effects need not be over-written.

If you record a piano and guitar, in Song #1, then lay it down to audio, you may not like how the guitar sounds in the mix, with new sounds, on Song #2. Go back to the original MIDI setup - Song #1 and add a Compressor and Delay to that guitar. You still have the MIDI data, so the notes and modulations of that guitar are preserved - you don't have to replay it!

Now, bounce that guitar and piano, but with the new effects, to stereo audio tracks. You can copy these to Song 2 (or wherever else). Delete the old track and you have your new effects.

Since one Combi can take up all 16 tracks, it's nice to know that you can lay down several of them, using the copy method. The trick is, setting a BPM that stays the same on all Songs, like 120 BPM. All Combis have their own BPM speed, so do this so your tracks stay in sync. I made a video of the process:

RECORDING MULTIPLE COMBIS


If you run out of Audio Tracks, you can also open up any track as a sample and potentially put 88 of them on one program slot.


Anyway, the OASYS is 3 years old, so of course a new system like the one on the Fantom G is bound to come out. More sequencer tracks would be nice. I don't know if it will happen, because everything on this Korg architecture is 16 parts - Audio tracks, Combis and Sequencer tracks. I suggested adding an identical MIDI page for Tracks 17 - 32.

I use just the internal sequencer, but I can work it to make pretty much any song I want. Most people run their synths into a computer DAW, like Cubase or Sonar. Still others use hardware sequencers from other boards that they are used to.

There are things that I could do with the OASYS sequencer that I could not on the Fantom G. If the posts I read were accurate, you can not simultaneously record your voice and an external guitar to their own inputs. With the OASYS, you can record 20 tracks, at once (16 MIDI, 4 Audio). I doubt anyone would need such a huge number, but you could easily be playing multiple synths, on different transmit channels, MIDI'd to the OASYS and simultaneously record them and several audio ins, via Multi-Record.

The Fantom G has 22 FX processors, but there is a fixed amount of effects per sound, so you cannot chain a dozen of them, if you want. The OASYS allows such chains.

The OASYS' bus system allows you to route external effects, like Yamaha and Lexicon boxes into the mix. See my video:

EXTERNAL FX INTO OASYS


The sysex recording capabilities allow for some cool automated mix down features - sliders and panpots can be moved and the screen will play back all of that. Plus, Tone Adjust recording allows realtime recording of filters, amp envelopes and other program altering modulations. And, something everyone seems to forget about is the OASYS' Pentium 4 speed, which means that samples and audio tracks load up in seconds.

But I still dont think that the HD-1 High Definition Synth, its Vector Synthesis and Wave Sequencing, its AL-1 Analog Synth, its CX-3 Modeled Tonewheel Organ and the Karma Technology should cost that much. There are so many pc sound libraries that are so much better and much cheapier.

It is what it is. I don't know if you can find a lot of the capabilities, like Wave Sequencing your own samples, or engines like the STR-1 and MOD-7, which allow user samples and even other synths to be routed into them. Nothing is stopping you from bargain shopping. If you can find better sounding for less, why aren't you getting it?

The OASYS is considered more of an experimental synth development platform, than as a mass market product. I could ask why a MiniMoog Voyager Select retails for $3,395, even though it only plays only one note of polyphony. Some people think it is worth it, while others think that a Virus TI is worth what it does. While the Key Buy, Editor's Choice and Workstation of the Year awards speak a bit about the quality of the OASYS, it comes down to an individual's choice. If the sound doesn't grab you, then certainly walk away.

[dhjdhj]

Hmmm, does that mean that the open architecture is no longer open?

Perhaps it's time to hand out an SDK.

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and likely won't as the machine has kind of stabilized as far as development goes