Loopers and the KP3

rodentdp · Post by **rodentdp** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:52 pm

Has anybody tried connecting a loop pedal (I'm specifically looking at the Boss RC-50, which does have MIDI I/Os) to the KP3, either to run loops into the pad which can then be altered, or as a MIDI controller? How did this work for you?

I am trying to run guitar (via a Line 6 Vetta II HD), voice, and other instruments through a mixer into the KP3. So far, this is working just fine. As a way to expand my playing options, I am thinking about getting the aforementioned looper. However, I'm trying to figure out a way to run all of my instruments into it so that I can, essentially, live multitrack any instrument, run it into the KP3, and then out to the mixer again for final control. Am I just getting too gear hungry, or is this possible?

I am also thinking that another way to do this is run everything out to the looper (instead of the KP3, as I have it now), then to the pad, and then back to the mixer...just not sure if this will work, or if I'm better running via MIDI for better overall control.

Pirx · Post by **Pirx** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:18 pm

I've got both, the KP3 and the RC-50. Both are in my opinion high quality tools, very usable for music experiments. On my setup the KP3 and the RC-50 are independently connected to a mixer, so that I can do both, feed the RC-50, then back to mixer, then into KP3 and back to mixer - and other way round, first into KP3, then to RC-50, then back into mixer, then into multitracker or Laptop. This is a bit of a complex setup, and actually I'm using two mixers and one Monitormatrix. I like to have some flexibility and thought about it for a while, for me this is a good solution.
To get a minimal loss of sound, I use a Yamaha MG10/2 and now, as the second mixer, a Soundcraft Compact 10, which both provide a very good signal quality and very low noise.
I considered the RC-50's MIDI-capabilities to control the KP3, but no luck here: the RC-50 doesn't send any note messages, only cc-messages. So it's not possible to switch the KP3's sample banks by RC-50 MIDI-messages. All in all no problem for me.

Pirx

MisterRider · Post by **MisterRider** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:34 pm

Hi Prix,

that sounds like a very interesting setup - I'd like to hear more about it. COuld you post a signal path diagram / schematic of your setup? If you had the option, would you go for something else? A larger mixer (ex: KORG Zero8)

thanks!

T

Pirx · Post by **Pirx** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:27 pm

Hello MisterRider,
thanks for your interest, but I'm afraid I'm not able to do a detailed diagram or something, just because I wouldn't know how to bring it over here, and also, the setup changes all the time and I'm constantly working on new alternatives.

Basicly and most important for my way to work: I'm always looking for mixers or other devices with a lot of Out's, that can be used as AUX ways, which enables me to send the signal independently to several external devices. That way I get a lot of flexibility. Almost all mixing devices in an (for me) affordable price range and with relatively small dimensions have a lot of In's but just a few Out's. The Zero 8 seems to be usable in that respect, but also is a bit expensive, although with very interesting specs.

So my way to go isn't 'professional' at all right now, it's rather improvisation. For example, I'm considering to get a device called HA8000 from Behringer, which is a Phones amplifier by itself. It can be used as a flexible routing device though, with 2 In's and 8 Out's, all switchable, and a very good sound quality. DJ's often use the Phone Out's of there units to feed the signal into external devices, and it works well, although a pro studio wouldn't do it...

Hope, I could help. Ask, if more questions come up.

Pirx

xmlguy · Post by **xmlguy** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:17 pm

The KP3 IS a stereo four track looper. What are you trying to gain by hooking a looper into a looper? Do you know how to use the sample pads?

MisterRider · Post by **MisterRider** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:51 pm

XML - thanks for the info. I do know that the KP3 has looping and sampling capabilities (hence the label of "Dynamic Effect / Sampler") And I am using them, yes.

Unfortunately, however, the sync on the KP3 is sadly lacking, as there is no Song Pointer information received. So, consequently the KP3 drifts out of sync over time, which is unacceptable as a looping device that is integrated into a tight MIDI sequencing setup.

The 2880 on the other hand accepts MIDI Clock *and* song position pointer. And, depending on teh memory card I have installed, I can record many many minutes of loop - not just a few bars.

Diffr'nt boxes fo' diffr'nt jobs.

I would love to get a song position pointer integrated into the KP3 - how hard could that be in a future firmware update?

T

xmlguy · Post by **xmlguy** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:23 pm

MisterRider wrote:XML - thanks for the info. I do know that the KP3 has looping and sampling capabilities (hence the label of "Dynamic Effect / Sampler") And I am using them, yes.

Unfortunately, however, the sync on the KP3 is sadly lacking, as there is no Song Pointer information received. So, consequently the KP3 drifts out of sync over time, which is unacceptable as a looping device that is integrated into a tight MIDI sequencing setup.

The 2880 on the other hand accepts MIDI Clock *and* song position pointer. And, depending on teh memory card I have installed, I can record many many minutes of loop - not just a few bars.

Diffr'nt boxes fo' diffr'nt jobs.

I would love to get a song position pointer integrated into the KP3 - how hard could that be in a future firmware update?

Actually, my reply was in response to the OP by rodentdp.

But I do agree that a looper like the 2880 is significantly different than the KP3. In fact, the 2880 is on my wishlist for multi-track looping with real faders and foot pedal control. It won't replace my KP3 however.

rodentdp · Post by **rodentdp** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:53 am

in response to xmiguy:

My set-up is based on lots of delays and looping on the fly, and having as much flexibility as possible with manipulating the sound (I'm also running some other odd effects through my set up to keep it interactive)...having more looping options, the better. this kind of stuff is an experimentalist dream

The sample pads comment was idiotic, btw. The problem is that they don't provide enough looping capabilities. I play guitar, and I want to record other instruments through the set-up I have going as well. The loops in the kp3 are fine, but I want longer looping time and options (and making loops of loops), and the best piece of equipment to do it with.

xmlguy · Post by **xmlguy** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:05 am

Since your original post was in January, and now it's September, I think it's pretty idiotic that you haven't found something by now. Ever hear of google? Use it.

MisterRider · Post by **MisterRider** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:33 pm

XMLguy's belligerent comments aside, I'd like to respond to Rodent's post constructively.

RE longer loop times and more options, try the EH 2880: http://www.ehx.com . I have one and it's really cool; very intuitive and sounds great. It's basically a digital 4 track that you can record and sync on the fly. It is a true sync-able looping device, unlike the KP3 which is tempo-matched sync only, even if they claim it to have MIDI sync. My suspicion is that the MIDI s ync only grabs the tempo and then the KP3 uses its internal clock. But, I digress...

SMK · Post by **SMK** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:44 pm

Doesn't the new KP3 os 2.0 updater solve these drifting problems? I'm not runing into these headachs with my unit. But I do think that when KP3 was made, Korg only focused on making sure their 4 sample banks were in sinc.

MisterRider · Post by **MisterRider** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:08 am

Nope; the 2.0 update doesn't solve the basic problem with the sync - which is not locking to a song position pointer. When you have an MTC sync (Midi Time Code) you only get tempo information. So, as long as the 2 devices are EXACTLY in sync, your'e fine - which is impossible (try playing two CD players at the same time - even they will drift out of sync eventually). So, the KP3 at 126BPM will drift out of sync with my other gear - for example, the 2880 looper synced with the EMX-1. They are totally in sync, because... Song Position Pointer!

The KP3 will stay in sync with itself, but that's it... It would be a really easy fix to implement tho, wouuldn't it? SPP isn't that complex, I wouldn't think

rodentdp · Post by **rodentdp** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:09 am

never said I hadn't found anything, smartass. I was only responding to your original posting. If you thought it was idiotic, why did you respond at all to a topic started in January and just naturally assume that something hadn't been found. You hopped on the train 8 months late buddy, not I. So quiet the f*ck down, bitte schoen.

Maybe the sample pads fit the needs of your music, but I need more, hence the fact that I am/was looking for a looper and posted questions relating to my query.

MisterRider-the 2880 looks really cool...I think I want to get my hands on one to play with to see how I like it. Thanks for the recommendation!

xmlguy · Post by **xmlguy** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:33 am

rodentdp wrote:never said I hadn't found anything, smartass. I was only responding to your original posting. If you thought it was idiotic, why did you respond at all to a topic started in January and just naturally assume that something hadn't been found. You hopped on the train 8 months late buddy, not I. So quiet the f*ck down, bitte schoen.

Maybe the sample pads fit the needs of your music, but I need more, hence the fact that I am/was looking for a looper and posted questions relating to my query.

MisterRider-the 2880 looks really cool...I think I want to get my hands on one to play with to see how I like it. Thanks for the recommendation!

In my original posting, I was merely asking why you thought you needed a looper when you already had one. Later, you said that you needed more features, but you also called MY comment idiotic. I'm not a mind reader you moron. So you can go f*ck yourself, and I'm not going anywhere, so you if you don't like it, you can go away scheißer.

MisterRider · Post by **MisterRider** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:23 am

actually, XMLguy implied that rodent didn't know how to use his guy. So rodent called the comment "idiotic."

Then, XMLguy implied that Rodent didn't know how to use Google.

Then Rodent called XMLguy a smartass

Then XMLguy said to go fcuk yourself

So, for those of you keeping score, it's Rodent 0, XMLGuy minus one for being a "Senior Member" and contributing to starting a flame war.

you guys are funny.