macboy,
Yes I agree as well..things need to change from our perspective (the customer buying the product)!
By the way, Jerry is very much responsiblefor the success of the PA in the USA as the M3...he is the manager if the USA distributorship for all Korg in the US.
Jerry, how about an update as to where we are on the issues?
Lee
To prospective purchasers of the Pa2x
Moderators: Sharp, X-Trade, Pepperpotty, karmathanever
-
Fransman
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 1095
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:15 pm
- Location: Netherlands (PA4X61+PAas. Past: PA3X, PA800, Y PSR-S910, PA500, T KN1000, Y PSR-16)
Korg could have great benefits in being more active on this forum (which I consider to be THE global Korg Forum).
Like I mentioned earlier: In Germany this is being done and it works great.
Korg-people join in threads (or even start threads themselves), giving very useful information.
They show their authority and knowledge of the instruments without being arrogant.
They stimulate people to get the best out of their Korg-instruments.
They are VISIBLE and very good Korg ambassadors; by being so close to the customers.
This direct communication is highly appreciated by all the musicians.
Korg can (must!) of course stay independent, and of course Korgforums also!
In the German forum, the Korg-employees are recognizable by a clear KORG-avatar.
Like I mentioned earlier: In Germany this is being done and it works great.
Korg-people join in threads (or even start threads themselves), giving very useful information.
They show their authority and knowledge of the instruments without being arrogant.
They stimulate people to get the best out of their Korg-instruments.
They are VISIBLE and very good Korg ambassadors; by being so close to the customers.
This direct communication is highly appreciated by all the musicians.
Korg can (must!) of course stay independent, and of course Korgforums also!
In the German forum, the Korg-employees are recognizable by a clear KORG-avatar.
Musical grtz, Frans
Play in style.
Play in style.
That's just awesome.Fransman wrote:Korg could have great benefits in being more active on this forum (which I consider to be THE global Korg Forum).
Like I mentioned earlier: In Germany this is being done and it works great.
Korg-people join in threads (or even start threads themselves), giving very useful information.
They show their authority and knowledge of the instruments without being arrogant.
They stimulate people to get the best out of their Korg-instruments.
They are VISIBLE and very good Korg ambassadors; by being so close to the customers.
This direct communication is highly appreciated by all the musicians.
Hello folks:
So what do I know at this time?
Korg Italy and Distributors (especially France) have been working very closely on the LED issue for the last few months. As soon as they have a final answer they will let us know. Top priority attention is being given to this issue.
Lock-ups are always hard to judges/evaluate, as Rob has discussed. But I know they are constantly looking at bugs etc. and OS 2.0 does deal with many bugs behind the scenes, as every OS update does. I do not know specifics of the bug-fix list.
Fills - I have been playing around with the instruments and studying things, and talking to Korg Italy about this. I find it a bit confusing that I cannot match the audio examples directly to the Styles in the Pa - it sounds as if they were changed, tempos are different and sometimes the whole Style seems different. The main issue is about especially off-triggered timing of the fill. I have some theories that I am talking about to Korg Italy, but this is not a quick-fix type of thing, so you are all going to have to be patient about this issue.
It IS being discussed and analyzed, so for now I can only ask you to play carefully, as any triggered accompaniment product requires (be it Pa, Karma, or even arp patterns). By this I don't mean only behaving to the bar line, but when playing to the quarter-note down beat it is much better than playing in-between the beats.
As a musician myself, I do not find this type of playing so difficult to live with for a while longer while we investigate it more. So please understand and be patient while we look into it more, OK?
Regards,
Jerry
So what do I know at this time?
Korg Italy and Distributors (especially France) have been working very closely on the LED issue for the last few months. As soon as they have a final answer they will let us know. Top priority attention is being given to this issue.
Lock-ups are always hard to judges/evaluate, as Rob has discussed. But I know they are constantly looking at bugs etc. and OS 2.0 does deal with many bugs behind the scenes, as every OS update does. I do not know specifics of the bug-fix list.
Fills - I have been playing around with the instruments and studying things, and talking to Korg Italy about this. I find it a bit confusing that I cannot match the audio examples directly to the Styles in the Pa - it sounds as if they were changed, tempos are different and sometimes the whole Style seems different. The main issue is about especially off-triggered timing of the fill. I have some theories that I am talking about to Korg Italy, but this is not a quick-fix type of thing, so you are all going to have to be patient about this issue.
It IS being discussed and analyzed, so for now I can only ask you to play carefully, as any triggered accompaniment product requires (be it Pa, Karma, or even arp patterns). By this I don't mean only behaving to the bar line, but when playing to the quarter-note down beat it is much better than playing in-between the beats.
As a musician myself, I do not find this type of playing so difficult to live with for a while longer while we investigate it more. So please understand and be patient while we look into it more, OK?
Regards,
Jerry
Jerry,
Thanks for giving us an update. We appreciate your being here.
A few things:
1) While you may be new to all these issues we are not. LED/lockups issue has been here a long time The fills issue is easy to reproduce. It has been here since day 1! And the terrible issue with the loosing of user sound locations (.SET issue) when putting together user styles/sounds is WELL known and a bif issue for many of the advnced players/owners. We have asked time and time again for the algorythm to be able to have third party write the utility to manage user styles/sounds...no good answer from Korg PA has been given. They decided to encode the files..now we can't manage to them. Look at all the third party support (utilitys etc) that Yamaha has!
2) Since all these issues and many others that have been brought up here (and special people here HAVE sent them to Korg PA) have been a real concern for many.
I don't know te size of Korg PA development??? If it is a small group as I expect, then with many known issues what the heck are they doing adding new functions (OS2)?? These issues needed to be fixed first.
OS2 new featurs will great to have and are much appreciated, but one certainly has to ask what management in Italy is thinking?.
It makes me ( and others?) think that the issues we bring forward are not issues for Korg PA (Yes we know they have to accept and fix that the LED issue exists).
The very biggest complaint in all the years is the poor fill functions. My gosh, there are people that got rid of the PA for this reason, and others that won't even consider buying one because of it. How can Korg PA be so blind? Unless this is not fixable with the current architecture and they dont want us to know that?
Korg PA must know aboutthis for a long time, why has it not already been fixed?
I think for many they are at a crossroad of decision on which company to own a keyboard from. I know I am.
One thing I do believe...Korg Japan needs to meet with Korg Italy and see if a management change is in order.
Lee
Thanks for giving us an update. We appreciate your being here.
A few things:
1) While you may be new to all these issues we are not. LED/lockups issue has been here a long time The fills issue is easy to reproduce. It has been here since day 1! And the terrible issue with the loosing of user sound locations (.SET issue) when putting together user styles/sounds is WELL known and a bif issue for many of the advnced players/owners. We have asked time and time again for the algorythm to be able to have third party write the utility to manage user styles/sounds...no good answer from Korg PA has been given. They decided to encode the files..now we can't manage to them. Look at all the third party support (utilitys etc) that Yamaha has!
2) Since all these issues and many others that have been brought up here (and special people here HAVE sent them to Korg PA) have been a real concern for many.
I don't know te size of Korg PA development??? If it is a small group as I expect, then with many known issues what the heck are they doing adding new functions (OS2)?? These issues needed to be fixed first.
OS2 new featurs will great to have and are much appreciated, but one certainly has to ask what management in Italy is thinking?.
It makes me ( and others?) think that the issues we bring forward are not issues for Korg PA (Yes we know they have to accept and fix that the LED issue exists).
The very biggest complaint in all the years is the poor fill functions. My gosh, there are people that got rid of the PA for this reason, and others that won't even consider buying one because of it. How can Korg PA be so blind? Unless this is not fixable with the current architecture and they dont want us to know that?
Korg PA must know aboutthis for a long time, why has it not already been fixed?
I think for many they are at a crossroad of decision on which company to own a keyboard from. I know I am.
One thing I do believe...Korg Japan needs to meet with Korg Italy and see if a management change is in order.
Lee
-
mrniceneasy
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 1125
- Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:07 am
- Location: UK
- Contact:
Thanks for your very straightforward and honest Input with this post Jerry. I'm sure that the folks on this Forum will appreciate the information that you have provided and that some of their main concerns are indeed being looked at by Korg. 
Regards, Keith [pa1000]
www.korgpahelper.yolasite.com/
www.korgpahelper.yolasite.com/
Thanks Jerry
Thanks Jerry for your update,
What can be said, I am so dissapointed with the PA2X, and worrying as it looks as though later models have, or are showing LED blowouts etc, see the White Stick thread. Why oh why did Korg Italy decide that there was not a need for communication on this I will never know, without rambling on as I have in many threads here on the forum, I want to say a few things I believe to be true. Logically
!. The OS2 upgrade had to be created to fix flaws in the PA2X/800 because the initial OS's were flawed so seriously that only a major OS upgrade was going to correct the problems with the lock ups etc. Indeed the new features were an afterthought, to sweeten the pie. Am I wrong? well we will see, I hope that OS2 makes significant inroads into some of those issues.
2. How long has it been?????? released in November!!!!! well its the 23rd November here, yes I know there are 7 days left, but what worries me is, what sort of a stupid game is Korg Italy playing, are they going to release the OS2 on the last day????, Paulo said it was ready in Golden Beta, so where is it????, Please dont tell me on the last day of November that there is a delay, because after many months of problems and indeed the OS2 anouncement, there have been many months go by, so if its not ok we need to know now, not on the 30th November.
3. I have ordered a Tyros3, I am hoping that Korg Italy get this rotten problem sorted out. I want to keep my PA2X, but the way it looks, its making my decision to do so, an awfull reality check. Its been allmost 12 months now, since the locking up issues, and I have not been able to use this board live, waiting for answers from Korg Italy.
Well in the movie ID4 "Independance Day" the clock is ticking, and time is almost up. So Korg Japan, get to Italy fast, because this may be the last Korg I ever buy from Italy.
I am sorry if this offends some members here on the forum who may have perfectly good working boards, what worries me is that they could be ticking time bombs, whether they fail, or whether the resale is so badly reduced, either way it wont be good outcomes. So I represent you also in this fight to get this corrected . I hope you realize this and understand, I wish I did not have to complain as bitterly as I have
What can be said, I am so dissapointed with the PA2X, and worrying as it looks as though later models have, or are showing LED blowouts etc, see the White Stick thread. Why oh why did Korg Italy decide that there was not a need for communication on this I will never know, without rambling on as I have in many threads here on the forum, I want to say a few things I believe to be true. Logically
!. The OS2 upgrade had to be created to fix flaws in the PA2X/800 because the initial OS's were flawed so seriously that only a major OS upgrade was going to correct the problems with the lock ups etc. Indeed the new features were an afterthought, to sweeten the pie. Am I wrong? well we will see, I hope that OS2 makes significant inroads into some of those issues.
2. How long has it been?????? released in November!!!!! well its the 23rd November here, yes I know there are 7 days left, but what worries me is, what sort of a stupid game is Korg Italy playing, are they going to release the OS2 on the last day????, Paulo said it was ready in Golden Beta, so where is it????, Please dont tell me on the last day of November that there is a delay, because after many months of problems and indeed the OS2 anouncement, there have been many months go by, so if its not ok we need to know now, not on the 30th November.
3. I have ordered a Tyros3, I am hoping that Korg Italy get this rotten problem sorted out. I want to keep my PA2X, but the way it looks, its making my decision to do so, an awfull reality check. Its been allmost 12 months now, since the locking up issues, and I have not been able to use this board live, waiting for answers from Korg Italy.
Well in the movie ID4 "Independance Day" the clock is ticking, and time is almost up. So Korg Japan, get to Italy fast, because this may be the last Korg I ever buy from Italy.
I am sorry if this offends some members here on the forum who may have perfectly good working boards, what worries me is that they could be ticking time bombs, whether they fail, or whether the resale is so badly reduced, either way it wont be good outcomes. So I represent you also in this fight to get this corrected . I hope you realize this and understand, I wish I did not have to complain as bitterly as I have
Making music is a passion, not a choice of lifestyle
Not correct diagnosis. The LED's are actually blown. It's the first time I heard of an OS that can repair the PN junction inside an LED that has gone open circuit[/color]
thank you activate my Administrator I just want to help my friends and korg
i don't beleive that 2008 can make a mistake at the hardware
after all these years of experience but for the software code This is possible because is a new technology for them
It's just to prove that my case is at software
I opened my pa2x to test if the led's problem
I removed power and I tested my led with another
circuit that is working and its ok
beleive me freind's is not hardware is software
This is not the hardware problem
thank you activate my Administrator I just want to help my friends and korg
i don't beleive that 2008 can make a mistake at the hardware
after all these years of experience but for the software code This is possible because is a new technology for them
It's just to prove that my case is at software
I opened my pa2x to test if the led's problem
I removed power and I tested my led with another
circuit that is working and its ok
beleive me freind's is not hardware is software
This is not the hardware problem
Not correct diagnosis. The LED's are actually blown. It's the first time I heard of an OS that can repair the PN junction inside an LED that has gone open circuit[/color]
thank you Administrator to activate my account I just want to help my friends and korg
i don't beleive that at 2008 Korg can make a mistake at the hardware
after all these years of experience but for the software code This is possible because is a new technology for them
It's just to prove that my case is at software
I opened my pa2x to test if the led's problem
I removed power and I tested my led with another
circuit that is working and its ok
beleive me freind's is not hardware is software
This is not the hardware problem
thank you Administrator to activate my account I just want to help my friends and korg
i don't beleive that at 2008 Korg can make a mistake at the hardware
after all these years of experience but for the software code This is possible because is a new technology for them
It's just to prove that my case is at software
I opened my pa2x to test if the led's problem
I removed power and I tested my led with another
circuit that is working and its ok
beleive me freind's is not hardware is software
This is not the hardware problem
chebsaid
So, are you saying that the same LED that does not work in one location does in fact work somewhere else?
If so, then the hardware is damaged, the drive circuit at that spot that does not work is defective now.
LED's blow for one reason alone, too much current draw (over the rated value by a lot) and will never work again. If they don't come on, and you reset the board (cycle power) and then they work...that could still be a hardware problem or firmware (software).
In todays equipment... hardware and firmware (software tightly coupled to the hardware, but changeable) work as one t make it all work. But when hardware fails, that's it, you needs parts to fix it.
Lee
So, are you saying that the same LED that does not work in one location does in fact work somewhere else?
If so, then the hardware is damaged, the drive circuit at that spot that does not work is defective now.
LED's blow for one reason alone, too much current draw (over the rated value by a lot) and will never work again. If they don't come on, and you reset the board (cycle power) and then they work...that could still be a hardware problem or firmware (software).
In todays equipment... hardware and firmware (software tightly coupled to the hardware, but changeable) work as one t make it all work. But when hardware fails, that's it, you needs parts to fix it.
Lee
-
Rob Sherratt
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 4590
- Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:49 pm
Hi Jerry,
Please forgive the length of this message, but I think it will be worth your while to consider the suggestions, each of which is numbered for easy reference.
A large factor in my recent decision to buy the M3 - which I am delighted with - was the very positive and constructive way in which both you and Stephen Kay have supported the M3 user community. Especially the way you took account of user feedback and suggestions in the evolution of the M3 and with the V2 expanded and V2 Karma upgrades.
Your personal good reputation precedes you - and I and many other users greet you here in the "Professional Arranger" forum with much good will. We hope you will stay. Certainly if you do become a regular contributor here, then I will continue as a user and a supporter of Korg Arrangers.
1. My Pa2x is now undergoing soak testing at the labs in Italy where Korg engineers are working to replicate the lock up failure mode. I wish them success in identifying and solving this intermittent problem which I acknowledge as being one of the most difficult things to trace and diagnose. I know all Pa2x users would like to be reassured about it as soon as possible. Any more lock ups during live gigs could be a death blow for the product. So, in the near future users will need a procedure to determine whether their own Pa2x might be affected.
2. If there was an Internet-based product registration procedure for the Pa series then it would allow the company to notify all users if there are any product issues or workarounds that users should be aware of. It would have the beneficial effect of preserving the company's reputation with its customers, preventing "dirty laundry" from being washed in public like has recently happened. Nedim and I started such a registry in this forum, and you can see the sticky thread for yourself. There would be mutual benefits if Korg would endorse this or a similar registration procedure for communication with Pa users.
3. Will Korg agree to step up the level of interaction with users? You must do this if you want good will among users to sell your products for you. Every marketing person knows this is the most effective and cheapest way to sell products, but it only works when there is mutual respect and good will. You cannot earn good will without dialogue.
4. Many people have said they would be prepared to pay something for the privilege of interaction with Korg representative(s). We can see that Korg might deem it necessary for competitive reasons to communicate about requirements and future plans in a closed forum whose membership is restricted to registered owners who agree to preserve confidences. I am sure we could raise the funds to cover say ten hours per week of your time, for example.
Best regards,
Rob Sherratt
Please forgive the length of this message, but I think it will be worth your while to consider the suggestions, each of which is numbered for easy reference.
A large factor in my recent decision to buy the M3 - which I am delighted with - was the very positive and constructive way in which both you and Stephen Kay have supported the M3 user community. Especially the way you took account of user feedback and suggestions in the evolution of the M3 and with the V2 expanded and V2 Karma upgrades.
Your personal good reputation precedes you - and I and many other users greet you here in the "Professional Arranger" forum with much good will. We hope you will stay. Certainly if you do become a regular contributor here, then I will continue as a user and a supporter of Korg Arrangers.
1. My Pa2x is now undergoing soak testing at the labs in Italy where Korg engineers are working to replicate the lock up failure mode. I wish them success in identifying and solving this intermittent problem which I acknowledge as being one of the most difficult things to trace and diagnose. I know all Pa2x users would like to be reassured about it as soon as possible. Any more lock ups during live gigs could be a death blow for the product. So, in the near future users will need a procedure to determine whether their own Pa2x might be affected.
2. If there was an Internet-based product registration procedure for the Pa series then it would allow the company to notify all users if there are any product issues or workarounds that users should be aware of. It would have the beneficial effect of preserving the company's reputation with its customers, preventing "dirty laundry" from being washed in public like has recently happened. Nedim and I started such a registry in this forum, and you can see the sticky thread for yourself. There would be mutual benefits if Korg would endorse this or a similar registration procedure for communication with Pa users.
3. Will Korg agree to step up the level of interaction with users? You must do this if you want good will among users to sell your products for you. Every marketing person knows this is the most effective and cheapest way to sell products, but it only works when there is mutual respect and good will. You cannot earn good will without dialogue.
4. Many people have said they would be prepared to pay something for the privilege of interaction with Korg representative(s). We can see that Korg might deem it necessary for competitive reasons to communicate about requirements and future plans in a closed forum whose membership is restricted to registered owners who agree to preserve confidences. I am sure we could raise the funds to cover say ten hours per week of your time, for example.
Best regards,
Rob Sherratt
Korg is it a sware problem or Hardware
You can see the confusion is raining supreme here. Answers are required??? is it Software or Hardware, well chebsaid I am going back to the earlier OS, to see if it fixes lockups etc, I hope you are right
Making music is a passion, not a choice of lifestyle
-
Rob Sherratt
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 4590
- Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:49 pm
Hi chebsaid,
I'm pleased for you that the reason that an LED on your keyboard was not working was due to a software or data error only. I do not doubt this in your case.
However the reason behind most people reporting a succesion of LED's not working is because the LEDs are blowing (hardware failure confirmed by testing the LED's). Korg France have been replacing whole circuit boards (to which the LEDs are soldered).
My memory LED failed. Nothing lights up when I try to remember anything
Best regards,
Rob
I'm pleased for you that the reason that an LED on your keyboard was not working was due to a software or data error only. I do not doubt this in your case.
However the reason behind most people reporting a succesion of LED's not working is because the LEDs are blowing (hardware failure confirmed by testing the LED's). Korg France have been replacing whole circuit boards (to which the LEDs are soldered).
My memory LED failed. Nothing lights up when I try to remember anything
Best regards,
Rob
Agree Rob
I quote "
Hi Jerry,
Please forgive the length of this message, but I think it will be worth your while to consider the suggestions, each of which is numbered for easy reference.
A large factor in my recent decision to buy the M3 - which I am delighted with - was the very positive and constructive way in which both you and Stephen Kay have supported the M3 user community. Especially the way you took account of user feedback and suggestions in the evolution of the M3 and with the V2 expanded and V2 Karma upgrades.
Your personal good reputation precedes you - and I and many other users greet you here in the "Professional Arranger" forum with much good will. We hope you will stay. Certainly if you do become a regular contributor here, then I will continue as a user and a supporter of Korg Arrangers.
1. My Pa2x is now undergoing soak testing at the labs in Italy where Korg engineers are working to replicate the lock up failure mode. I wish them success in identifying and solving this intermittent problem which I acknowledge as being one of the most difficult things to trace and diagnose. I know all Pa2x users would like to be reassured about it as soon as possible. Any more lock ups during live gigs could be a death blow for the product. So, in the near future users will need a procedure to determine whether their own Pa2x might be affected.
2. If there was an Internet-based product registration procedure for the Pa series then it would allow the company to notify all users if there are any product issues or workarounds that users should be aware of. It would have the beneficial effect of preserving the company's reputation with its customers, preventing "dirty laundry" from being washed in public like has recently happened. Nedim and I started such a registry in this forum, and you can see the sticky thread for yourself. There would be mutual benefits if Korg would endorse this or a similar registration procedure for communication with Pa users.
3. Will Korg agree to step up the level of interaction with users? You must do this if you want good will among users to sell your products for you. Every marketing person knows this is the most effective and cheapest way to sell products, but it only works when there is mutual respect and good will. You cannot earn good will without dialogue.
4. Many people have said they would be prepared to pay something for the privilege of interaction with Korg representative(s). We can see that Korg might deem it necessary for competitive reasons to communicate about requirements and future plans in a closed forum whose membership is restricted to registered owners who agree to preserve confidences. I am sure we could raise the funds to cover say ten hours per week of your time, for example.
Best regards,
Rob Sherratt" end quote
Rob agree with what you have said allthough its been many times said and requested previously, I hope this all comes to fruition
Thanks
Rob Keith
Hi Jerry,
Please forgive the length of this message, but I think it will be worth your while to consider the suggestions, each of which is numbered for easy reference.
A large factor in my recent decision to buy the M3 - which I am delighted with - was the very positive and constructive way in which both you and Stephen Kay have supported the M3 user community. Especially the way you took account of user feedback and suggestions in the evolution of the M3 and with the V2 expanded and V2 Karma upgrades.
Your personal good reputation precedes you - and I and many other users greet you here in the "Professional Arranger" forum with much good will. We hope you will stay. Certainly if you do become a regular contributor here, then I will continue as a user and a supporter of Korg Arrangers.
1. My Pa2x is now undergoing soak testing at the labs in Italy where Korg engineers are working to replicate the lock up failure mode. I wish them success in identifying and solving this intermittent problem which I acknowledge as being one of the most difficult things to trace and diagnose. I know all Pa2x users would like to be reassured about it as soon as possible. Any more lock ups during live gigs could be a death blow for the product. So, in the near future users will need a procedure to determine whether their own Pa2x might be affected.
2. If there was an Internet-based product registration procedure for the Pa series then it would allow the company to notify all users if there are any product issues or workarounds that users should be aware of. It would have the beneficial effect of preserving the company's reputation with its customers, preventing "dirty laundry" from being washed in public like has recently happened. Nedim and I started such a registry in this forum, and you can see the sticky thread for yourself. There would be mutual benefits if Korg would endorse this or a similar registration procedure for communication with Pa users.
3. Will Korg agree to step up the level of interaction with users? You must do this if you want good will among users to sell your products for you. Every marketing person knows this is the most effective and cheapest way to sell products, but it only works when there is mutual respect and good will. You cannot earn good will without dialogue.
4. Many people have said they would be prepared to pay something for the privilege of interaction with Korg representative(s). We can see that Korg might deem it necessary for competitive reasons to communicate about requirements and future plans in a closed forum whose membership is restricted to registered owners who agree to preserve confidences. I am sure we could raise the funds to cover say ten hours per week of your time, for example.
Best regards,
Rob Sherratt" end quote
Rob agree with what you have said allthough its been many times said and requested previously, I hope this all comes to fruition
Thanks
Rob Keith
Making music is a passion, not a choice of lifestyle