Is Karma useful for creating original music?

KingBooger · Post by **KingBooger** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 4:40 pm

I am a home based studio songwriter. I am seriously debating between the M3 and the M50. I know that the M3 is vastly superior to the M50, but also costs almost twice as much. I read that Karma is VERY complicated and trying to do original stuff on it is difficult. Most of the demos I have seen focus on Karma and the combi's. Does anyone use them in their music, or are they just glorified examples of what your music COULD sound like. I am kind of intimidated by Karma, and I don't know if it is worth the money for me.

Synthoid · Post by **Synthoid** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:43 pm

KingBooger wrote:Does anyone use them in their music, or are they just glorified examples of what your music COULD sound like. I am kind of intimidated by Karma, and I don't know if it is worth the money for me.

I've composed dozens of original tunes over the years, but could only play a few of them in a live setting. Karma basically opened the door for me to do almost all of them live. I never wanted to drag around a drum machine, computer, or play along with a CD onstage. The number of variations, random textures and rhythms, plus the drum track make the M3 an excellent tool.

Now I haven't had time to create complex combinations from scratch, but I've extensively modified existing ones. Karma is a bit overwhelming at first, but with the help of Stephen Kay and the members at the Karma-Lab Forum, I'll eventually figure it out.

Stephen · Post by **Stephen** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:10 pm

Even if you just use the drum patterns, and use the Karma feature for ideas, it's well worth the price, as this will eventually lead you to want to learn more about the workings of KARMA, and there are tutorials, and lots of help available.
HTH

EJ2 · Post by **EJ2** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:12 pm

Absolutely! Go here for demos of a few of my prototype combis currently undergoing refinements at Karma-Lab. http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... dID=619491
These combis were recorded live directly into the sequencer on the OASYS (M3 versions coming up shortly) with no overdubbing, bounced to wav, then converted to mp3 in computer. That's it. I'm using the chord triggers, improvising in the right hand lead or across the keyboard, changing the KARMA Scenes, and activating other RTCs.

You have a wealth of tools at your finger tips with KARMA technology.
Cheers,
Eric

georgeinar · Post by **georgeinar** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:32 pm

Not to knock karma or drum tracks, as I do see useful functions for many purposes. However, I do find that to do an original composition, I find it easier to simply manually sequence my own tracks rather than spend the time trying to program karma modules and drum tracks that are original sounding to my own style of music. That being said I have played around with some of the karma, using it as a form of arpeggiator and I will say that whatever functions are going on in there would be far beyond my sequencing capabilities, so I am determined to incorporate some karma at least in bass patterns, maybe a drum track here or there. Maybe someday I'll find that it's not that difficult to load and tweak in sequence mode, quite unusual and original karma sequences.

KingBooger · Post by **KingBooger** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:49 pm

Thanks for your nice replies. I was afraid that I was coming off as knocking Karma. That is not the case. I am in awe of it. I am just afraid of spending $1900 on something that might be way over my head. I am also afraid of being tempted to use Karma too much resulting in a song that was written by Stephen Kay and not myself. I have to say EJ2, that your demos were great. I most likely will get an M3 (it's capabilities are mindblowing), I just want to make sure I'm not overbuying for my needs. Thanks again.

bctines · Post by **bctines** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:59 pm

Definitely not an overbuy IMO...especially since you can tweak KARMA a million ways from Sunday...very creatively!

Westnik · Post by **Westnik** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:31 pm

I think if you are songwriter do NOT buy M3. In my opinion M3 is better for performance not for home studio.

You can buy M50 and also buy Karma software for M50.

I do not use 50% of M3 capabilities, working with Karma for me like fishing with rod in muddy water, you never know what and when you can get. M3 with Karma has weakness - it is very difficult to find right Bass pattern. Even if Bass pattern is primitive. So it is very difficult for me to start writing quickly - bass stops everything.

M3 definitely needs arpeggiator for bass, but Korg prefers to develop M3's sequencer.

1. You do not need M3's sequencer - you, perhaps, have got a DAW in you computer.

2. M50 has an arpeggiator and very good one.
3. You can buy Karma software for M50 and you will get all those GUI in M50

georgeinar · Post by **georgeinar** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:38 am

Well, I agree to some extent with the difficulty of using Karma, but I would not tell people not to buy a M3 for writing songs. That's all I use it for and I love it. Of course if money is extremely tight then maybe. However, I think it's advisable to purchase as much power as your money will allow because if you ever really harnass your Karma2 you will be glad it's at your disposal. If you start small, how will you expand?

Synthoid · Post by **Synthoid** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:36 pm

georgeinar wrote:Well, I agree to some extent with the difficulty of using Karma, but I would not tell people not to buy a M3 for writing songs. That's all I use it for and I love it.

Yes indeed!

KARMA isn't like fishing in murky waters, it's more like being invited to eat at a restaurant with endless food and drink selections! Yes, it takes awhile to sample all the "goodies," but I'd rather have more than I need in a keyboard than one I'll outgrow in 6 months. (Got plenty of those.)

I agree that KARMA technology isn't for everyone, but dismissing it 15 minutes after playing the M3 is an injustice.

Westnik · Post by **Westnik** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:30 pm

but dismissing it 15 minutes after playing the M3 is an injustice

I have got M3 for more than a year. It is enough to judge.

How do you manage to find right bass pattern? The problem of Karma is that - if you already have right music in your head - drums, bass, etc., Karma can not give you quick help, M50's arpeggiator can.

M50 + Karma soft are cheaper than M3 61. But you have to have a computer.

Sorry about my English grammar.

EJ2 · Post by **EJ2** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:55 pm

Synthoid wrote:
georgeinar wrote:Well, I agree to some extent with the difficulty of using Karma, but I would not tell people not to buy a M3 for writing songs. That's all I use it for and I love it.
Yes indeed!

KARMA isn't like fishing in murky waters, it's more like being invited to eat at a restaurant with endless food and drink selections! Yes, it takes awhile to sample all the "goodies," but I'd rather have more than I need in a keyboard than one I'll outgrow in 6 months. (Got plenty of those.)

I agree that KARMA technology isn't for everyone, but dismissing it 15 minutes after playing the M3 is an injustice.

Right on, Synthoid! Since the red Karma days I have been extolling the virtues of KARMA technology. However, for some, it remains a very misunderstood and under appreciated set of tools for creating/composing original music.

Hi Westnik,
Are you aware with KARMA software (MW, KO, KM3, KM50), you can develop your own taylor made Bass GE? The tutorials contained within the software explain how to do this.

Long live KARMA!
Cheers,
Eric

Synthoid · Post by **Synthoid** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:10 pm

Westnik wrote:
but dismissing it 15 minutes after playing the M3 is an injustice
I have got M3 for more than a year. It is enough to judge.

I wasn't referring to your post, just a few others where people don't understand the value of such a tool and dismiss the M3 too quickly.

Westnik wrote:How do you manage to find right bass pattern?

All my music is instrumental, so I often start by hunting for interesting combinations and then totally reworking them to taste. The "surprises" I've come across (and saved, thank God) are simply amazing.

I guess if you are writing a song with lyrics and have a specific bass pattern in mind, you'd have to do some searching through the GE's. But as stated above, you can always buy the M3 KARMA software and create custom ones for your M3.

Westnik · Post by **Westnik** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:58 pm

you can develop your own taylor made Bass GE

Therefore, you admit, that M3 is not enough to create song, especially dance style.

I am suggesting to buy M50 what is M3 without unnecessary things (for songwriters) and get Karma software (and arpeggiator, of course)

I was disappointed that M3 does not have an arpeggiator, like M50 or Triton.

I was very disappointed again when understood that Korg does not want to make an arpeggiator in M3.

Sorry about my whining, but somebody has to add flies in your honey ointment.

iixorbiusii · Post by **iixorbiusii** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:28 pm

Hi,

I'm definitely not a skilled songwriter, but I find using my own Karmafied combis, I can really put together tunes in little time at all.

For example this one: http://www.karma-lab.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13572 was put together only on an M3 in about 2 hours from inception of the combi, to posting it on the Karma forum.

It is a great tool for songwriting!!

Good luck with it, and keep persevering !

Cheers.

iix.

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Is Karma useful for creating original music?

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