Questions from prospective buyer

Discussion relating to the Korg M3 Workstation.

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Hugo
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Post by Hugo »

Hey, thanks for the feedback people.
Regarding the Combi mode, it sounds like an interesting solution, though not as ideal as being able to program several elements at once. At least that's my feeling, without having much experience (only a little with the Korg Triton which I owned a short periode).

Regarding the Motif XS, it seems everyone praises it for its hign quality sounds. Indeed, I had Motif ES, and it sounded fab. I am still, however, put off by the lack of some functionality I think is essential. Plus I dig the fact that the M3 can be detached from the keyboard, this is very appealing to me.

The M3 also has a very BIG plus in the optional Radias plug-in.
Anyone own it? What are your thoughts?

UCanDream; I get the impression you're not that fond of the Fantom G, am I correct in this? ;)
Also: what is your take on the 8 element structure in the Motif XS?

Thanks again.
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Synthoid
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Post by Synthoid »

UCanDream wrote:The Roland G8 still sucks!
Don't candy-coat it.....how do you really feel? :lol:

I also found many of the Fantom G's sounds uninspiring after playing one at the local Guitar Center. Some of the drum rhythms were fun to noodle with, but that's about it. Nice BIG screen though.....maybe some day Korg's touch screen will include more pretty pictures and graphics.

The M3 is the keyboard I use 95% of the time. While I really like all the fabulous acoustic sounds the Motif XS offers, its interface takes some getting used to. You'd think Yamaha would offer a touch screen by now.

Of course then there's Kurzweil with that little screen they STILL put on their current keyboard (PC3). Nothing like 1990's technology.

Addition:

What disappointed me most about the Motif XS is--shortly after I bought one, I started visiting the Motifator forum. I never saw such moaning and complaining about a keyboard in my life! After all the preaching I read on a couple of other forums--on how GREAT the Motif XS is--I bought one and read all this! Most illogical. Makes you want to scratch your head.
Last edited by Synthoid on Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
M3, Triton Classic, Radias, Motif XS, Alesis Ion
Sina172
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Post by Sina172 »

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Last edited by Sina172 on Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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georgeinar
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Post by georgeinar »

You did ask about Radias, which I have the exb radias, and for my electronica stuff I use it for several tracks on every song I do. There are great grainy and fuzzy programs there that have nice presence, i wish I was better at programming it, but the stock sounds are very usable and easy on the ears.
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Hugo
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Post by Hugo »

georgeinar wrote:You did ask about Radias, which I have the exb radias, and for my electronica stuff I use it for several tracks on every song I do. There are great grainy and fuzzy programs there that have nice presence, i wish I was better at programming it, but the stock sounds are very usable and easy on the ears.
Cool :) Have you looked into the programming bit? I'm curious to know just how intuitive it is. I've been jamming a lot lately with my Korg DS-10 for the Nintendo DS, and programming that one is a treat. With the much bigger screen on the M3, it should be no less fun programming there. Are there for instance patch cables in the UI?
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Subpar
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Post by Subpar »

I just wanted to say that I own a FG8 and an M3. I love the M3 but it can't touch the fantom for live use. I only want to use on board live and the cutout that the M3 has for live a just unbareable. The M3 is just used in studio. The FG is my main work horse and I couldn't be happier. Not sure why there are so many FG haters on here, but I have much love for the FG and the M3!!!
L8r

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silverdragonsound
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Post by silverdragonsound »

Subpar wrote:I just wanted to say that I own a FG8 and an M3. I love the M3 but it can't touch the fantom for live use. I only want to use on board live and the cutout that the M3 has for live a just unbareable. The M3 is just used in studio. The FG is my main work horse and I couldn't be happier. Not sure why there are so many FG haters on here, but I have much love for the FG and the M3!!!
Doing sound for bands on the side, I've found how you set things up and mix live has a tremendous impact on your sounds regardless of what equipment you're using. It is funny though how some people claim just the opposite of what you said. As an example, Jordan Ruddess has made several comments regarding his Oasys being a much better board live and the fantom G being counter-intuitive at times in a live setting. Even people in the Roland Clans forums make the same claims. JR has also made comments about the sounds being thin and not on par in a live setting with the Oasys. He's said he thinks its the difference between the samples made by Korg and Roland. Of course he may just be pissed because the fantom G has crapped out on him in live situations as well features not working as advertised and he has is obligated to continue using it.
And there was this one time at band camp......
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Subpar
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Post by Subpar »

Arguing over the Internet is pretty pointless. But you said it the fantom g crapper out on him in multiple situations. To my knowledge there has only been one. And that device suffured damage from gigging. What made it a publicity problem was the fact that he did t have a backup a lesson we shops all learn. You don't have any idea how many times his oasys might have suffered damage as part of the rigorous track schedule they maintain because he always had a backup. Stop blowing things out of proportion people. I giged with my M3 61 and the whole upper octave had key damage where the keys where stuck. 200 $ later keys fixed. That is part of life on the road. I don't think there is a single person who travels with there gear that hasn't had somethpe of issue on the road.Mine suffered damage on a plane the the UK. So should I come on here and start flaming Korg ? Nope should I take it as a grain of salt as life on the road? Yes. If you want to talk quality, the G is built like a tank and weighs as much too. I have giged the g 3-4 times a week since sept and it doesn't have as much as a scratch. I wish I could say the same for the m3. The cheap paint they use on the module is hardly road tough. Seriosly. People who think that JR incident reflects the G not the wear and tear of life on the road are sadly mistaken. And to learn for jr mistakes I just got my second g8 today. So now I have a backup as well.

As far as sounds, no the g cannot compete with re oasys nor was it advertised as such. The version of the G that he used didn't even have multisampming. It does now obviosly. Jordan uses alot of samples. But the end resul is the oasys with all the expansions provide him with a larger palete which is also larger than the m3 which is the g's direct competitor. Jordan also said that he was ago to build the entire set for the LT gigs with the waveforms that came on the g out I the box, without adding loads of samples. And for that he was very complementery. The g is at tv beginning stages of development much like the m3 was or any workstations are in the first year. Korg continue to improve the m3 and Roland continue to improve the g. Look at where the FX finished after all the updates. Look at the triton, look at the fusion , look at the motif, look at the m3. They all get better ovrtime. That is the reality of the market we live in.

Same with the beloved oasys....


My point here is I make music. I have gear from many manufacturers. Every workstaion has it's ups and downs. I believe that everyone has a right to an opinion and to express that opinion. Everyone has the right to not like a workstation and there are many who hate Korg just go to the motif forums. Don't twist things like JR experience to paint an incorrect picture of an extremely capable workstation. We should encourage everyone to trythem all out and pic what is best for them and thier style. You never know what genius thought could be triggered or inspired by any workstation. The point is they need to test them in person and take anything that someone says from behind a pc with a grain of salt.

I love music and making music. Much love to the people here on these forums. I have learned alot here and wanted to give back something more constructive to people here.

Peace!!!
L8r

Dustin
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Subpar
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Post by Subpar »

Sorry for the many typos above. The iPhone sometimes interpers things wrong and makes wrong corrections. Dman the iPhone sucks, everyone should go back to the nokia bricks we all had cause they were so stable. LOL sorry couldn't resist.

Anyway such is life on the road away from my of at the moment!!!
L8r

Dustin
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UCanDream
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Post by UCanDream »

Subpar wrote:I just got my second g8 today. So now I have a backup as well.

I believe that everyone has a right to an opinion and to express that opinion.
Here is my opinion: "I am sorry to hear that you threw so much money away."

Shame on Roland! They should have just released an 88 key hammer action JV80. Roland engineers are uninspired with dried up ideas. And they are far too desperate to keep making money on old, recycled samples thinking that guys out there wont notice! A pretty case and a colorful, twinkling display does not constitute innovation when the inside of the package is an old, shriveling, decomposing synth from the 80's. And don't get me going on Roland support!!! I have never seen such poor customer support. (I am talking phone support here--so no need to point to the updates on their website.) PLUS, it appears that the manual translations are still being done by some dyslexic alcoholic eskomo from Zimbabwe trying to learn an old, obsolete dialect of Japanese. It makes me hope that Roland is the next Crumar.

I'm going to check my atlas...I don't think that Eskomos are from Zimbabwe!

If I am wrong in my opinion here, the one thing that cannot be changed is this: The G8 sucks!

Have a delightful day,


David
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Rob Sherratt
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Post by Rob Sherratt »

I currently have two workstations, one is a Korg Pa2x and the other is a Korg M3/73 with EXB_Radias. There are more factory sounds available for the M3 compared with the Pa2x, and the best synth sounds are on the M3/EXB_RADIAS, but the most expressive and realistic lead instrument sounds are on the Korg Pa2x.

New "Defined Nuance Control" sound capability with "legato triggering" was recently introduced on the Pa2x, and each sound can have up to 16 OSCs playing simultaneously. You have to hear the lead instruments like "tenor sax" DNC to believe it. There are several demos here:

http://www.korgpa.com/pa_root/en/produc ... mo.html?en

"Legato triggering" on the Pa2x plays different samples when you play notes smoothly in a scale or jazz progression. It is ployphonic, not at all like the legato effect when playing a mono synth sound using EXB_RADIAS. The M3 can't do that with polyphonic notes at the moment ... maybe it will come, but who knows? I believe Korg added the DNC capabilities to the Pa2x to head off the new "Expanded Articulation" XA capabilities on Yamaha synths such as the Motif XS.

I'm not advocating anyone to trade their M3 for a Pa2x. But if you are looking for an additional keyboard/workstation, then you might like to audition the Pa2x before you finalise your decision.

And I want to counter the tiresome old debate about arrangers and workstations. In my opinion, the M3 with Karma is a more useful arranger than many arrangers. The Pa2x with sampler, vocal harmoniser, and sequencer is a more useful workstation than many workstations.

Best regards,
Rob
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silverdragonsound
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Post by silverdragonsound »

Subpar wrote:Arguing over the Internet is pretty pointless. But you said it the fantom g crapper out on him in multiple situations. To my knowledge there has only been one. And that device suffured damage from gigging. What made it a publicity problem was the fact that he did t have a backup a lesson we shops all learn. You don't have any idea how many times his oasys might have suffered damage as part of the rigorous track schedule they maintain because he always had a backup. Stop blowing things out of proportion people. I giged with my M3 61 and the whole upper octave had key damage where the keys where stuck. 200 $ later keys fixed. That is part of life on the road. I don't think there is a single person who travels with there gear that hasn't had somethpe of issue on the road.Mine suffered damage on a plane the the UK. So should I come on here and start flaming Korg ? Nope should I take it as a grain of salt as life on the road? Yes. If you want to talk quality, the G is built like a tank and weighs as much too. I have giged the g 3-4 times a week since sept and it doesn't have as much as a scratch. I wish I could say the same for the m3. The cheap paint they use on the module is hardly road tough. Seriosly. People who think that JR incident reflects the G not the wear and tear of life on the road are sadly mistaken. And to learn for jr mistakes I just got my second g8 today. So now I have a backup as well.

As far as sounds, no the g cannot compete with re oasys nor was it advertised as such. The version of the G that he used didn't even have multisampming. It does now obviosly. Jordan uses alot of samples. But the end resul is the oasys with all the expansions provide him with a larger palete which is also larger than the m3 which is the g's direct competitor. Jordan also said that he was ago to build the entire set for the LT gigs with the waveforms that came on the g out I the box, without adding loads of samples. And for that he was very complementery. The g is at tv beginning stages of development much like the m3 was or any workstations are in the first year. Korg continue to improve the m3 and Roland continue to improve the g. Look at where the FX finished after all the updates. Look at the triton, look at the fusion , look at the motif, look at the m3. They all get better ovrtime. That is the reality of the market we live in.

Same with the beloved oasys....


My point here is I make music. I have gear from many manufacturers. Every workstaion has it's ups and downs. I believe that everyone has a right to an opinion and to express that opinion. Everyone has the right to not like a workstation and there are many who hate Korg just go to the motif forums. Don't twist things like JR experience to paint an incorrect picture of an extremely capable workstation. We should encourage everyone to trythem all out and pic what is best for them and thier style. You never know what genius thought could be triggered or inspired by any workstation. The point is they need to test them in person and take anything that someone says from behind a pc with a grain of salt.

I love music and making music. Much love to the people here on these forums. I have learned alot here and wanted to give back something more constructive to people here.

Peace!!!

Here's the problem with your part of your comments I'm stating everything Jordan Rudess has said himself. He's flaming the Roland Fantom G and for the record let me set a couple of things straight.

1. The fantom G has crapped out three times according to his people. One of the times he was able to reboot, another time he switched to a backup unit and the other time he didn't have a back up unit.
2. One of JR's good friends, Andrew Saltmarsh, who is a writer, has said how disappointed he is with the fantom G and how he feels its counter-intuitive. This point was verified by another one of his friends, Charles Tentindo who also said the same thing.
3. JR has also made mention of issues he's had with the following things on the fantom G - Custom multisamples not loading, then, when loaded, not triggering correctly, the newly implemented audio automation feature in a recent update doesn't work properly, some of the drums tracks have locked tones in that they are non customizable, there are no sample assign and BPM calculate features, the sampler they added to the G is incredibly limited and not worth using.
4. The Rudess camp has also said JR is not happy regarding the sound quality of the Fantom G.
5. He has also said he will not re-endorse or use the Fantom G after the deal is up.

I don't care how you slice and dice this, he is not happy with the fantom G. Everyone around his him says it.

Its also important to restate many of the people flaming the Fantom G are former owners of the Fantom G and current owners of the fantom X who wanted to upgrade. Direct experience with the unit. Lastly in my travels and discussions with keyboardist, what is being said on the internet is also being told to me verbally by those who have hands on experience. Other sound mixers I've spoken to and worked with have also made comments regarding the fantom G sounding thin. Again direct experience. I can get the fantom G to sound decent in a live mix but I have to work alot harder and apply more fx to make it so.
And there was this one time at band camp......
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