Using M3 like Drum Machine?

[StuGrunt]

I need a drum machine for my performances. I do not want to preprogram the entire song. I want to put in a couple loops, including fills, and play them on the fly.

For instance: As I start playing, I want it to play loop 1 until I press a button. If I press a fill button, I want it to fill and then return to the loop. If I press another button, I want it to switch to that loop. Pretty basic, I would think.

The software versions I am finding online want me to layout the whole song in advance. I don't want that. I don't know until the performace where I will go.

Also, for the fill and alternate loop butons, the buttons cannot be microscopic. The drums is a side-job for me, I am playing another instrument. Likewise in software, I cannot be moving a mouse and clicking in between 16th notes.

So now I am looking at drum machines and also I expect to be adding an M3in the near future. I don't want to buy a drum machine, and then later when I get an M3, no longer have use of the drum machine.

Will the M3 allow me to "execute" fills on command and switch loops on command, and with reasonably good side buttons?

In advance, thank you.

[Rob Sherratt]

No, the M3 is not an arranger. You need a Pa2x or Pa800 for that.

Regards,
Rob

[Cutter]

In program you can scroll through drum groves but to do anything other than play them takes some work. You can do loops and asign them to a key and switch them. Not sure how to do it in combi mode.

[shrike]

StuGrunt,

what's stopping you from assigning drum patterns to keys (RPPN) in sequencer mode?
For example, you can make five different patterns, which would act as "variations".
Then you can program five "fill-ins", but structure them together with variation patterns - if variation patterns are 1 bar long, fill-in pattern should be two bars long, first bar for fill-in, second bar for variation pattern. This will allow you to play fill-in-to-variation without needing to press variation pattern immediately after fill-in (you will have to press variation pattern after two bars of fill-in-to-variation pattern is over because it will lead you to the fill-in once again - or you can create 8 bars long fill-in-to-variation pattern, fill-in in the first bar, variation in the remaining 7 bars). Also, this will allow you creating 25 different versions of fill-in-to-variation (first fill-in + 1st variation, then 2nd, then 3rd, 4th, 5th, then 2nd fill-in + 1st variation, 2nd and so on...).
If you do so, you have 30 keys used up till now (5 variations + 25 fill-in-to-variation patterns).
Then you make five breaks and do the same as with fill-ins. That's 25 keys more, total of 55 keys.
If you have 61 key keyboard, you still have room for let's say 3 intros and 3 endings.

Not to get confused with where is which pattern, you can organize them like this:
a) 1st octave black keys (C#2, D#2, F#2, G#2, A#2) - variation patterns,
b) C2 to C3 white keys, C#3 to F4 both white and black keys - fill-in-to-variation patterns,
c) F#4 to A5 both black and white keys, B5 to B6 white keys - break-in-to-variation patterns,
d) A#5, C#6, D#6 - three intro patterns,
e) F#6, G#6, A#6 - three ending patterns.
this leaves you spare C7 key for special assignments (for example, you can make one event edit pattern, which would trigger some change to your sound, like adding some effect, selecting new drum kit, or something similar).

This is just recommended setup.

Now let me know which arranger can do this.
Arranger have less elements to choose from when compared to this.

So really there is no reason why you wouldn't use your M3 as drum machine. More so, you probably won't remember where is which fill-in-to-variation positioned, which will cause unrepeated playing.

If you want to use M3's tone generator for playing some other sounds alongside this drum patterns setup, buy an additional midi controller with 61 keys, program it to work on midi channel 2 and assign drum kit track to midi channel 2, connect midi out from midi controller to midi in on M3. Then on M3 assign channels you want to play with M3's tone generator to midi channel 1. There is a good chance M3 has better keys than other midi controller and for triggering drum patterns quality of the keys is of no importance so that's why I recommend this setup.
Or even more versatility - midi controller should be set up to midi channel 16, drum kit track on M3 should too.
Then you can use 15 tracks to make some serious sounds layering, multiple sounds on same midi channels, browsing through tracks or channels enables you to play several instruments at once and change them with a single touch.

Like STS on arrangers.

You said in your posts you want some buttons to control drum patterns. In the case I described you use keys instead of buttons, but in my opinion that's even better - buttons can become unresponsive or damaged due to extensive usage, there is no such danger for keys.

Or if you insist on buttons, you can buy PadKontrol or nanoPad or some other controller with pads, program it to send certain note messages, connect it to your M3 and voila - you have drums on pads.

[a.schemkes]

This is an interesting setup. Did you already made a set up like this shike?

Question, lets say a variation is playing and I hit the fill pattern key in the middle of the beat, what happens? Does the fill starts immediatly, will it wait untill the next bar, does it starts from the beginning?

[StuGrunt]

I will have to study Shrike's response. Since I don't have an M3 at this time, it is a bit harder to understand. I do like the idea of assigning events to keys though. I am playing an organ, all my body parts are already busy.

I am worried that if I get an arranger I will have more limits than with the M3. Perhaps I am wrong though.

Would the M3 come with many pre-arranged drum tracks or is this precisely the reason one would go with an arranger? I really don't want to spend too much time "designing" the drum tracks. I really am looking for a "drum machine", but if I don't have to purchase both a drum machine AND an M3 or Pa2x I would be happier. Less equipment is better.

[Rob Sherratt]

Hi Shrike,

I have not managed to configure my M3 for use as an arranger keyboard or as a "Drum Machine" equivalent. This may be due to my inexperience with the M3 since I have only had it 5 months. If you have done this could you send me any Combi with an example configuration so I can play Drum intro, fills, exits etc?

At the moment I am using the Pa2x when I need to play live, and I use the M3 together with the Pa2x for composition work in the studio. However I would like to use the M3 with pseudo arranger and drum machine capabilities for "live performances" if you can please help me.

Best regards
Rob

[BollywoodFan]

This is an interesting setup. Did you already made a set up like this shike?

Question, lets say a variation is playing and I hit the fill pattern key in the middle of the beat, what happens? Does the fill starts immediatly, will it wait untill the next bar, does it starts from the beginning?

Yes, RPPR Playback can be synchronized to beat or measure. If you set it up for measure, the play back will start from the next measure. Refer to page 276 in the parameter guide.

[shrike]

a.schemkes, you got your answer from BollywoodFan.

Rob Sherratt, I can't send you Combi because of a simple reason - I don't have M3. I have an Extreme, so M3 has no or little value to me.
Building the setup I described isn't trouble at all, the more trouble is to create drum patterns that satisfy you. If you are already into sequencing, chance is you already have some patterns you made. Just assign them in RPPR, it works with keys so basically every key can have it's own pattern. This goes even beyond simple key assignment - you can have two or three tracks with drum kit assigned and spread patterns to just one octave of the keybed, then assign patterns to three tracks and program them to be velocity switched. Since velocity switch works with pressure amount (0-127) it wont influence actual drum pattern sound (as long as it's sound isn't responsive to velocity changes - sequenced drum patterns aren't since they are programed, not played in real time).

Arrangers are suitable for one-man-band performance, I do give them credit for that. Implementing some additional features like vocalist makes them even more suitable for this purpose.
But when it comes to versatility, an arranger doesn't stand a chance when compared to a workstation.
THIS IS JUST MY OPINION, I don't want to flame anything here.

[Cutter]

stu...a lot of people have been asking the same types of questions for some of the same reasons. I know I have asked. I play and record live as many players do. They create rather than assemble. Also like you I don't want to program I want to play.

Arrangers come up short on sounds like combis that Korg offers. Pre done grooves like the M3 and M50 have as far as I can tell has limits on swithcing the grooves even if you make one and save it.

Roland has come a little closer to building a keyboard for these types of players, not sure about yamaha as I don't know much about them and the sales help at the stores never do.

In my hunting that I do every day for the right keyboard I am getting to the point where I might have to just buy two keyboards. I say that because so far the drum machines out there are hardly more than the ones found in the casios.

If Korg had built the drums on the m3 into a seperate drum machine and groove generator it would have been near perfect ( add the oct+- buttons for the 61 key model)

[Rockitman]

Finding the perfect keyboard is a noble hunt. I can say that because I keep buying them. My approach in the past has been been to buy that next feature or sound I was looking for. Now that has been great because I have learned alot from each keyboard I have owned. Now I am applying myself to programming the ones I have. Mostly My new M3 and my PA800. I'd rather make music as well, but there is a lot of satisfaction to experimenting and learning how to do it yourself. I love this idea of using the keys to trigger drum patterns. This is the kind of ideas that keep me reading this forum every day. I'll have to add this to my experiment list.