Official statement on the status and future of the OASYS

[Rocness]

It would be cool if (for example) I could release an update to KARMA for the OASYS myself, at any time - but impossible. Any modifications requiring changes to the interface has to fully involve the Korg engineering team, and their proprietary in-house development tools. So sadly, those kinds of third party things are just not going to happen, the way I see it.

But this is one I could find so far. His implication tells me that the redesigned sequencer codes can't simply be added onto what's already been existed but rather needing to rewrite the code in a larger scale.

Hi, I don't know what you're "getting" from what I wrote, but I didn't say anything about the sequencer. All I said was, that let's say I decided to add a new "fill mode" such as I am doing for the Open Labs version. It requires several on-screen parameters for each module. Where do they go? How can the user edit them? I myself cannot modify the interface (GUI) screens of the OASYS. That requires Korg Japan's engineering department (and their proprietary interface creation tools) to do any modifications. Hence, I cannot just modify the KARMA part by myself. That is what I was saying.

Like I said in a earlier post No Karma update the real tragedy of it all not the sequencer. Already we hear that Open Labs will be getting a Karma update they Oasys will not. read my earlier post below.........





Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 20

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:39 pm Post subject:
For me the saddest part is not the sequencer but no update to Karma is the real tragedy.
I don't know if Stephen can find a way to do anything more with out the help from korg.
As far as the sequence goes, if you had to you could use your favorite DAW but what about Karma. Let's face it Karma is going to grow it's a living breathing thing.It will hurt us all, the day we see Open Labs or another company have the benefits of updated karma technology wile Oasys users don't. I would hope that Korg inc.(Japan)would at least support Stephen Kay and the development of Karma into Oasys .I believe there's always away we just have to find it and be positive about it. What we need people are SOLUTIONS.

How about if Oasys users invested in a special Korg stock to help at least the development of Korg and Karma technolog.I'm not saying major updates to the Os
just for updated Karma if it where to be available.
May-be Korg can email all Oasys users about option to buy korg stock
and we can be proud to invest in a company that we know and Love.
I say ask not what your Oasys can do for you but what you can do for your Oasys.

Let's all get together and invest in Korg stock that way we can have a small say so in at least supporting any Karma updates.Is this possible
We need real world solutions or should we just die?

No update to Karma is the real Tragedy imagine the possibilities.


peace

[danatkorg]

It feels ironic that when the DX7 came out in the summer of 1983 in Norway, one could still buy a brand new one i 1987.

The OASYS was introduced in January 2005, more than four years ago.

Best regards,

Dan

[pandel]

I'm sorry, but if you spend $ 8,000 on a product that *might* contain some feature in the future you're a bit naïve and unreasonable.

Reading this thread I can only conclude that the Oasys is a great product and that it's users are generally very happy with it. ...

Yes, I'm sorry that I believed in the official marketing proposals of a after all serious company with very sophisticated products in past and present !

I bought it for what it was AND for what it might have been, based on how it was advertised. I think, this is not that unusual - if a device is advertised as being upgradeable and extendable I bet everybody who thinks about buying it takes this into account.

We have seen big updates, so nothing to discuss here! That's not my complaint. My complaint is about how evenly update decisions have been averaged when we take a look at the whole system! We have very big synth engine updates, a big Karma update, a big sound lib and some major and minor system fixes. Now comes what's in question: and what about the rest? EXf, sequencer?

And to compare things, MOD and LAC haven't been in there when I bought it and I didn't buy the O because I was "expecting" them, but it had the sequencer, which I expected to grow over time and get better, that's right! So, you see, expecting some changes in an over all existing module is nearly nothing compared to expecting new synth engines and sample libs, which have to be developed or recorded in detail from scratch...

I know I'm beating up a dead horse , so only to make it quite clear.

EDIT: Uuups, and what I forgot: I absolutely LOVE my OASYS, thought you should know! If I didn't had one and had to decide, I'd buy one!

[Synergy]

Oh, I would say that there's still a lengthy M3 wishlist that is unimplemented, and always will be - with every product. You forget that there were some OASYS wishlists earlier on that said things like "I wish we had FM synthesis", or "I wish we had more synth engines" or "I wish we had better brass sounds..." Some things will always be addressed, some will not..

I'll take your word for it in that there's still a lengthy M3 wishlist that is yet to be implemented but would the owners of M3 lament over a wishlist like we have on the Oasys? It's hard to imagine that M3 owners will refinance their mortgage and take a massive exodus to Oasys camp just to fulfill their cravings over FM Synthesis or better brass sounds. Not that it matters but my OS is stucked at 1.3.0.

You actually own stock on the Japanese stock market in Korg Inc.? Or do you just mean that owning an OASYS makes you a stock holder? Somehow I don't think my owning a GE microwave makes me a stock holder in GE. I don't mean that to sound flippant, but please - buying a product, any kind of product, does not make you a stock holder. It makes you a customer.

I got what you mean and we can pretty much concur in that this is where our difference occur. As you may agree wholeheartly, my ownership of an Oasys won't grant me a decision making voice over the Korg board room like that of a preferred dividend holder or you as a developer, but only as a customer. Likewise, an ownership of $40 GE microwave or buying a $0.90 McDonald coffee certainly won't make me a stockholder but a customer. Unlike GE or McDonald, surely Korg has been too forgiving to have core members of their own to interact with a mere customer like me on things that are too humbling for me to admit. Perhaps we could all agree on that the reason Korg has their employees interacting with so called end customers is not to prevent any of us suing Korg over things such as fried babies or boiled crotches but maybe something more noble and constructive. I'm hoping that at least some of the Korg folks will think that we the customers are not just disposable ones.
Sacasms aside, I wasn't trying to flatter myself thinking that I could, not only have the unsolicited permission to change the global warming but Korg's policy as well.

[danatkorg]

A quick comparison of the history of M3 and OASYS updates, fwiw:

M3 updates (XPanded and SuperCharged):

412 MB new samples
672 new Programs, 32 new Combinations
Sequencer piano roll editing
Sysex editing
"Touch-drag" touch-screen input for knobs, sliders, and piano-roll editing
KARMA 2.2
700 effects presets


OASYS updates, since the initial release in 2005:

STR-1 physical modeling synth
PolysixEX modeled analog synth
MS-20EX modeled analog synth
MOD-7 VPM, waveshaping, PCM-mangling synth
EXs3 brass and woodwinds (over 700 MB)
Approximately 1,250 new Programs
Over 780 effects presets
Increased polyphony for AL-1 and STR-1
Chord mode
EXi audio input
AMS Mixer "Gate"
Smoothing for Tone Adjust (for smooth, "analog" feel on the Control Surface knobs & sliders)
Poly unison
Max # of notes
KARMA 2.1, including user GEs
KARMA 2.2, including smoother GE transitions
2 GB RAM support
Load/unload of EXs without restart
Lossless compression of EXs samples
Playback within the Sequencer MIDI Event Edit window
Other small goodies like EXi 1/2 transpose, step sequencer attack/decay smoothing, half damper enable/disable, etc.

[Tiger789]

It feels ironic that when the DX7 came out in the summer of 1983 in Norway, one could still buy a brand new one i 1987.

The OASYS was introduced in January 2005, more than four years ago.

Best regards,

Dan

I know

I was just being ironic. What I ment was that if these 2 old "antiquated" keyboards were available from the factory for a period of 4-5 years at the beginning of the 80's, and considering that they was extremly limited as far as expansions, it's ironic that the Oasys who is a modern hitech "Open Architecture" workstation is discontinued after only 4 years.

-Tiger

Guitarist / Classical pianist
Oslo, Norway
--------------------------------

Korg Oasys 88 - # 002113 + Karo Philh. Strings
Roland Fantom G6 + ARX-01
Yamaha Clavinova CVP-309PE

[fdspeck]

Well, it's not only fictional, it's completely wrong, I can assure you. Korg Inc. did not abandon the OASYS to Korg R&D resources after release, and they were involved in all the decisions, planning and execution as needed. And members of the team, from strategic planning on downward do see the forums from time to time.

Jerry, thank you for clarifying that (it was a nice sounding explanation, though )

Now that we know that even members of Korg Japan watch this forum, I trust that you at least discuss the reactions expressed in this thread in whatever decision committee you have. Ponder the proposal with the pre-paid updates. If that’s not feasible for you there may be other options.

Dan, I think it doesn’t help to recite the update list again and again. Everybody knows that. The problem that some user have is that they would rather see some problematic fields of the Oasys being addressed than having more EXi’s or EXs’s.

-Frank-

[minnkorg]

danatkorg wrote

Re minnkorg's ROI estimate:

As always, I won't comment on any of the assumptions re costs and profits.

However, in re the number of people who worked on the project, see:

http://www.keyboardmag.com/article/the- ... pr-05/7504

Note that most of the participants in this discussion hold senior positions; there are people from Korg Inc. software engineering, Korg R&D, and the sound design department, and also Stephen Kay. The hardware and mechanical engineering departments were not represented, unfortunately. Suffice it to say that it involved considerably more than 6 people.

Dan, there was no intent to minimize the work that went into the O. I mentioned that part of the R&D would result in generating the likes of M3...so that R&D would have to be amortized not just over just the O.
As Korgs founder said in the link u gave us, the O was supposed to be the S-Class of workstations.
Using the very same analogy, I think of the Oasys as the SLR McClaren that appeared into the Mercedes line up for a brief period, spawned its technology into various other models and finally came to its end few months ago. At $495,000 a pop it was never meant to be a mass produced item.
But like the SLR McClaren, the Oasys has already given back its creator (Korg) umpteen $$$ in return in the form of prestege, marketing and stature.

[Synergy]

I thank you Dan again for your enthusiasm listing all the goodies I may have overlooked. Let me use an analogy though some may vehemently deny that's the case.
An owner of M3 and an owner of Oasys both went on for a blind date.
A procrastinating M3 owner forgot to take a shower nor did he bother to pay a visit to a local Seven Eleven for an unexpected expenditure like the protection. On the other hand, an Oasys owner spent a fortune on a brand new Armani suit, a pair of shoes, a visit to a boutique hair salon and a wax service. He even took few Viagra pills and with him a box of flavored protection just in case things would go as expected.
The M3 man ended up with a petite female in her 20's. But the Oasys man met with a 200 pounder in her late 30's. To make a long story short, the M3 man bought his partner a glass of Papst and hit a home run nearby the trash bin and a few kisses afterward. On the other hand, the Oasys man treated her with $100 a piece stake dinner, another $100 for a desert, got lots of smooching on the cheeks in return during the course of the meal, brought her to a five star hotel room, had a few glass of fine wine, begged her for four hours and she rolled over and pretended dead. As the morning came, he spent another $100 for mud bath and found out out her to be shemale.

ps: Some will celebrate over it. But that's not what I bargained for.

[AnthonyB]

Well, Dan, the list/comparison chart (yours) seem to heavily "favour" the Oasys, with more detail included than needed to highlight the differences IMO. (unison/AMS/#notes etc) and Also KARMA 2.1 was on he M3 as well as 2.2 wasn't it?...

Compare that to the detailed Spec posted here by Stephen Kay

NEW XPANDED FREE UPDATE FOR THE M3!!

Also in your list are:

PolysixEX modeled analog synth
MS-20EX modeled analog synth
MOD-7 VPM, waveshaping, PCM-mangling synth
EXs3 brass and woodwinds (over 700 MB)

All these cost me/other users money, many hundred £$£$'s worth. So if you deduct those updates from the "update" list - things will be more evenly balanced, since the M3 Update cost ABSOLUTLEY nothing!! - and THAT (at least IMHO), is what ticks-off a lot of people round here. *Free* for those "non-expecting"

What a great day Fri Sep 12, 2008 must have been for the M3 owners- must have thought they died and went to heaven (and i don't, for one bit, begrudge them of it at all tis' a Blessing from Korg, very much so) .

The rest?, history........


Tony

[kenackr]

fdspec,

I disagree completely with your comment that the list of updates HAS no validity or that Dan has recited it too often. I think the whiners don't know or don't remember what has been provided as updates.

I believe that the list vs the M3 shows conclusively what Korg envisioned as "open" and what they delivered, proof enough for any casual observer.

Everyone should get off the "it has to do everything perfect" wagon and get realistic. There will never be an all inclusive instrument that does everything perfectly. What the Oasys does do, it does very very well and delivers the best sound on the market. End of story.

Either be happy that you have the currently best synth on the market or sell it and move on to nag and whine to someone else. Continued whining on this forum or any other will never produce any positive results for you.

Get over it! Enough! Finito.

Ken

[danatkorg]

Well, Dan, the list/comparison chart (yours) seem to heavily "favour" the Oasys,

Yes, I agree. That's an accurate factual representation, I believe; the OASYS has seen a number of significant changes.

with more detail included than needed to highlight the differences IMO. (unison/AMS/#notes etc)

These aren't the differences between the two instruments...just a list of the features added in updates. There are many other significant differences between the two synths, of course, as has been discussed before.

and Also KARMA 2.1 was on he M3 as well as 2.2 wasn't it?...

Yes, but unless I've missed something, it was not an update for the M3.

Compare that to the detailed Spec posted here by Stephen Kay

NEW XPANDED FREE UPDATE FOR THE M3!!

This page has plenty of details there about which specific sounds were added, and pictures and so on. I only see two features that I didn't mention: the Track View screen and new drum patterns.

If you look at the original announcements for the OASYS updates, you'll see much more detail there as well.

the M3 Update cost ABSOLUTLEY nothing!! - and THAT (at least IMHO), is what ticks-off a lot of people round here. *Free* for those "non-expecting"

I'm sorry that you feel that way. I'm not sure what more I can say, except to note that I also use the OASYS as the main keyboard in my home studio, and I wish that we'd been able to bring out a sequencer update as well.

- Dan

[AnthonyB]

[
I'm sorry that you feel that way. I'm not sure what more I can say, except to note that I also use the OASYS as the main keyboard in my home studio, and I wish that we'd been able to bring out a sequencer update as well.

- Dan

Actually Dan, my post was more in context to this actual thread etc rather than how "I" feel about the OASYS as a Whole. I love the OASYS, and am **DEEPLY** Grateful to all at Korg, whether R&D/Japan .Inc - or Both - was just looking at the comparisons.....

Sequencer aside, when you say """""I'm sorry that you feel that way. I'm not sure what more I can say......"""" it almost makes it look like I don't like the OASYS at all!. Nothing, absolutley nothing could be further from the Truth! (it really is difficult to express yourself over the internet forums in words - really is

Sequencer issue aside, the OASYS is the keyboard i've been looking for since the M1 days (and before), I've read your articles DAN in Korg magazine, and I appreciate everything you've done, make no mistake about it. VERY SORRY if i was coming Across as being "ungrateful" for all those years, both you, and Korg have been working on this instrument.

PS: (Half your adult life?? ) !


Tony

[danatkorg]

Sequencer aside, when you say """""I'm sorry that you feel that way. I'm not sure what more I can say......"""" it almost makes it look like I don't like the OASYS at all!.

I'm sorry - I didn't mean to imply that!

Thank you for your kindness - there's no need to apologize, and no offense taken. I'm sorry if I've been too pedantic about the upgrades.

PS: (Half your adult life?? ) !

Almost half, it's true...I'm shocked myself!

- Dan

[Sharp]

Dan, if I ever meet you in real life we are having a few beers for sure.
Your a good man and you have a good heart.

I also know what the OASYS means to you, Jerry and the rest of the team. It's hard not to hear it every time I turn it on and use it. It's not a musical "product", it's a musical instruments build with pride and I'm also proud like you for the work you done to actually own one.

It's pride like that is part of the reason why this forum exsists and we do what we do to keep the place going.

Best wishes.
James.