Radias or Access TI? Just ONE function is missing?

KorgPlayer · Post by **KorgPlayer** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:26 pm

Hello,

To cut the details of whole quest when it comes to chose a new keyboard (...), let me explain my problem.

I'm considering Radias or Access Virus TI. My primary reason of giving TI advantage is just ONE function that, in the moment I'm writing this, is missing in Radias. Actually just a part of Access TI function that is:

"...From inside a host application, the plug-in enables the new VIRUS hardware to appear as a multi-channel VST/AU soft-synth with up to 4 sub-mixes (or 2 × stereo). Access’ proprietary driver technology makes VIRUS TI the world’s first hardware synthesizer with sample-accuracy timing and a delay-compensated audio/MIDI connection."

So my question to KORG:s developers or admins is: Will Radias be able, in near future or similar, to stream audio through its USB in to DAW environment?

If yes, I will purchase Radias same minute you give me a positive answer.

I will really appreciate any input! Thanks.

shabudua · Post by **shabudua** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:32 am

That functionality will probably never come to the Radias. But if that's the ONLY reason you want a Virus instead of a Radias, I'd think very carefully before you drop the cash.

I had a TI Polar and the USB audio/vst connection never worked all that well for me, at least not to my satisfaction. First of all, it's plain old USB 1.0, not even 2.0. For me, it was a bit laggy, so I used my dedicated audio interface instead. You could get a Radias and a nice firewire interface for the price of a Virus, and still have a chunk of money left over.

Second, it is only guaranteed to work in a few DAWs...like Logic, Cubase, and ProTools. Another complication is that the editor software ONLY works as part of a DAW.

That said, it apparently works great for lots of people's needs, and there are many reasons besides the USB audio that you might choose a Virus over the Radias. Just make sure they're worth the extra money to you.

KorgPlayer · Post by **KorgPlayer** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:25 am

shabudua wrote:That functionality will probably never come to the Radias. But if that's the ONLY reason you want a Virus instead of a Radias, I'd think very carefully before you drop the cash.

I had a TI Polar and the USB audio/vst connection never worked all that well for me, at least not to my satisfaction. First of all, it's plain old USB 1.0, not even 2.0. For me, it was a bit laggy, so I used my dedicated audio interface instead. You could get a Radias and a nice firewire interface for the price of a Virus, and still have a chunk of money left over.

Second, it is only guaranteed to work in a few DAWs...like Logic, Cubase, and ProTools. Another complication is that the editor software ONLY works as part of a DAW.

That said, it apparently works great for lots of people's needs, and there are many reasons besides the USB audio that you might choose a Virus over the Radias. Just make sure they're worth the extra money to you.

Well you have a point there. Maybe what I will say now may sound strange but I feel frustrated that it takes so long time to record in audio everything when you only have 2 or 4 audio outputs from sound unit.

Imagine how long time it takes to record in audio song with 16 tracks: leads, pads, bas, drums, kick, HH, solo, etc etc.

What I see as a advantage when a hardware have several outputs is that several instruments can be recorded at once to DAW. In that case I prefer Access TI.

But I really really like the sound logic of Radias. So many possibilities in one box. Extraordinary...

netra · Post by **netra** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:02 pm

I own both a Virus Ti and A Radias. Whenever I startup a new project I found myself always loading the Virus plugin first cus of its flexibility, easy of use and ability to quickly scroll thru patches. I love the TI functionality.

By the end of the day tho I always end up playing on the Radias cus of its sound. I found it more "fun" to play the Radias then the Virus.

Having the Radias as your only synth could be tireing cus as you said you must record one sound at a time. Radias in combination with some virtual instruments tho could be a nice setup.

If you only gonna buy ONE synth and dont have a powerhorse computer to run VSTs, I would go for the Virus TI cus of its multitimbral capabilities.

Hope this helps!

shabudua · Post by **shabudua** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:48 pm

Maybe what I will say now may sound strange but I feel frustrated that it takes so long time to record in audio everything when you only have 2 or 4 audio outputs from sound unit.

Keep in mind, the Virus USB audio is also only 2 or 4 tracks:

"...From inside a host application, the plug-in enables the new VIRUS hardware to appear as a multi-channel VST/AU soft-synth with up to 4 sub-mixes (or 2 × stereo)".

You can't record more than 4 tracks at a time over the Virus's USB. You can mix all the Virus's multitimbres to those 4 tracks, but if I understand you, that defetes the purpose of what you want to do.

But if you want one instrument to do full multitimbral composing and recording, the Radias probably wouldn't be your first choice; it only has 4 simultaneous timbres.

kimu · Post by **kimu** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:41 pm

to me Virus TI is a whole step behind Radias... if i had to choose, i would buy Virus TI w/o any doubt.

or if i were planning to buy a VA, i would also have a look to thinks like Andromeda, PolyEvolver, V-Synth GT...

Timo · Post by **Timo** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:03 pm

shabudua wrote:I had a TI Polar... First of all, it's plain old USB 1.0, not even 2.0.

The Virus TIs use USB 2.0.

The confusion with USB v2.0 is that there are three types of USB v2.0 chipsets (for different speeds). Low Speed (1.5Mbps), Full Speed (12Mbps), and High Speed (480Mbps).

All the TIs have the mid-range "FullSpeed" USB v2.0 chipset @ 12Mbps (Megabits per second), which is incidently the fastest that USB v1.1 can achieve. Hence the confusion.

I doubt Radias will ever pipe audio down the USB. If they haven't done so yet, I don't think they will do.

Bear in mind that, although the Virus has 24-bit 192KHz D/A converters on their analogue outputs, any audio piped through the USB connection is restricted to 44.1KHz 16-bit.

shabudua · Post by **shabudua** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 2:23 am

All the TIs have the mid-range "FullSpeed" USB v2.0 chipset @ 12Mbps (Megabits per second), which is incidently the fastest that USB v1.1 can achieve. Hence the confusion.

So they have USB 2.0, but it's only as fast as USB 1.1 ?!? Hence the confusion, indeed.

KorgPlayer · Post by **KorgPlayer** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:13 am

netra wrote: If you only gonna buy ONE synth and dont have a powerhorse computer to run VSTs, I would go for the Virus TI cus of its multitimbral capabilities.

That is exactly my way of thinking! On other side, Radias have a motion sequence that is awesome for creation a Wavestation type of sound. As a proud owner of a Wavestation hardware I like that type of patches...

KevHammer · Post by **KevHammer** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:43 pm

That one feature is cool, but I don't think it should be the deciding factor in choosing between 2 such different sounding synths. From what I can gather the virus is great at analog sounds, but not much else. The radias is good at analog sounds, and also good at other types of synthesis too. If you really want an authentic analog sound then the virus might be better. If you want you want a powerful flexible synth and aren't worried as much about sounding vintage then the radias might be better.

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 3:28 pm

KevHammer wrote:That one feature is cool, but I don't think it should be the deciding factor in choosing between 2 such different sounding synths. From what I can gather the virus is great at analog sounds, but not much else. The radias is good at analog sounds, and also good at other types of synthesis too. If you really want an authentic analog sound then the virus might be better. If you want you want a powerful flexible synth and aren't worried as much about sounding vintage then the radias might be better.

I wouldn't say that you can't produce vintage sounds with the radias. you can just do more. it can still sound pretty vintage if you try, but the radias can do other things too.
it still sounds pretty KORG. korg analogue gear was always known for its clarity and precise tuning.
Yes if you just want analogue sounds then the virus may be better, but also consider this:

The virus effects section seems pretty limited, compared to the radias, it may have more simultaneous effects and parts, but there aren't so many effects in general. if I'm not mistaken you choose one distortion effect, one delay effect, etc.. a bit like it was on the ms2000 engine (but the effects on the virus are per-part).
on the radias you could choose to have tube distortion, then bit crusher, then pure distortion, then delay... or any combination you like.
there are two insert effects per part, and one overall effect. if you need four effects you can also use one of the timbres in audio in mode using the internal bus in order to route the audio from timbre 1 into timbre 2... and get four effects on your sound.

also, I'm not sure how the virus does drums. if it even can.
the drums are one of the most overlooked features on the radias. technically, if you had one timbre for drums, then you've got 16 independently synthesized drum parts, plus three other timbres.
The radias is definitely a dream for sound design.

Timo · Post by **Timo** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:13 pm

For dark, warm, thick, vintage, smooth analogue, choose Virus.

For clean, airy, bright, digital, and drums and mod sequencing, choose Radias.

IMHO.

KorgPlayer · Post by **KorgPlayer** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:56 pm

Timo wrote:For dark, warm, thick, vintage, smooth analogue, choose Virus.

For clean, airy, bright, digital, and drums and mod sequencing, choose Radias.

IMHO.

I have tested Virus TI and Radias now, I must say that I was impressed with both of them. Your deffinition is actullay closest to my own, thus I have very sensitive ears when it somes to high ocsilators frequencyes. (...)

It freeks me out as soon I hear that 'harasness' in sound. One salesman told me that the reason Radias and Virus sonds a bit different is more question about Radias DA/AD converter.

I have learned one thing. There is 2 types of sound quality when listening to VA hardware: How SOUND sounds because of hardware and how COLOR of sound is of compare with REAL hardware thing.

How much I can see when reading on different forums on the net, people is often not relating, taking those 2 things, apart. Having that in mind, it is now easier to do objective conclusions when tests different VA and real analog synthesis hardware...

KevHammer · Post by **KevHammer** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:40 am

The funny thing is that before I got my radias I primarily used a kurzweil k2000. The radias sounds so much more analog than the the k2000 did. Actually, sometimes I miss the aliasing sound of the k2000.

dr_boehm · Post by **dr_boehm** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:01 am