Editing w/ MAC & LOGIC now that O seq is dead on complet

[marvelous88s]

I held out so long for Korg to make their sequencer more intuitive. Damn what a let-down. Trust me I am holding back here.
Now that the possibility of that is in suspended animation - I am ready to pull the trigger and suffer the learning curve of Mac and Logic. I beleive this is the best path to easier editing, my primary goal. I am okay with recording on the O but the editing features kill it for me.
Any like exoerience or advice would be so appreciated.?
Thank you,
M

[Sharp]

Personally, I tried giving software sequencers a go and while I found them no bother at all to pick up and use, I had issues with my workspace and how everything flowed straight away. For me to move to a software sequencer I would need to buy a Touch Screen and have it positioned just inches over my OASYS.

The tools used to record your music should be positioned and within a level of reach that requires no thought. Anything else takes your mind off writing the actual music and your best efforts are only when your mind is fully focused on one task.

So in my opinion to get the best of both worlds you need to buy a Touch Screen and very carefully plan out your workspace and your connections so the integration between PC and Instrument are seamless.

If you still want to go hardware, then a AKAI MPC 4000 would give even the best DAW Sequencer a run for it's money.

Regards.
Sharp.

[Daz]

I've used Logic since version 4, initially on a PC and then moved to a Mac later. I now use Logic 8 on the Mac, and this latest version had a whole bunch of user interface improvements that make it much easier to use. When I've recorded with friends that are just straight up playing musicians, they've had no problems operating the sequencer when they had to make my seat so I could play my parts.

As for the Mac ... again highly recommended, it's the computer/OS to use when you want to get stuff done in my experience.

[Charlie]

I switched over to Logic 8 (Express) and an iMac for similar reasons like you described (ease of editing). The missing piano-roll was IMHO the biggest weakness of the O-sequ.

Anyhow - Logic is great. I prefer it to Cubase. I agree to Sharp's workplace suggestions: have the screen close and in front of you, have the mouse (or trackpad) in a place you can use it comfortably etc. Otherwise your back or your hands will hurt soon and you won't feel well while trying to be creative.

I came to Logic after 9 years of no software-sequencer at all (little time for music, kids, family etc.). Before that I used Cubase VST on a PowerMac and before that C-Lab-Notator on an Atari Mega ST (20 MB Harddrive - LOL ). I spent half a day of reading the interesting parts of the "quick-start" manual (about 90 pages) and started to work then. It is much easier learning Logic than the O-sequ.

What I still miss is the splendid integration that the Oasys offered. Choose a combi, get inspired, hit enter+rec and lets go. No drivers, no audio-interfaces, no cables distract you from making music. Esp. recording Karma-stuff works far easier if you stay within the Oasys. But one has to make compromises. BTW get a BIG screen for Logic - 24'' or bigger - it can't be too big.

[przemm]

Hi M,

Combining Oasys with Logic or some other DAW opens a new realm of audio possibilities. You can use the best of both worlds - Oasys amazing sounds plus DAW MIDI/audio editing, plugins and virtual instruments. Yes, you will lack the integration but if you properly design your workplace it will not be a problem. For me, the key element of the workflow is a DAW controller that partly replaces the mouse and gives you some faders. That really makes your experience a bit more Oasys like:-).

I treat my Oasys as a great tone generator - I can get amazing sound quality in my DAW environment. I find them extremely musical, spacious and organic. Recently I asked my sister who is an amazing professional classical piano player to record some piano parts for me - and believe or not, she preferred Oasys piano to the gigantic Ivory library (there a couple of pianos there) - in her words Oasys piano was just "musical and reacted and sounded better", while Ivory was "artificial, sounds just didn't connect".

Logic offers a lot - but as you probably know, you will need to spend some money on a Mac, an interface, sequencer, good plugs etc. and then probably you will have a learning curve and debugging instead making music. However, when you master new tools, the final product (if you also record vocals and real instruments) will be considerably better. I must say that I love the sound we get from Oasys MIDI sequencer (no audio parts) - it is really hard to get this in DAW without good converters.
Also Oasys EQs are very good too - much better than Logic internal ones. Also many dynamic and spacial effects surpass the ones in Logic.

Logic also seriously lacks in audio editing department and outboard integration compared to Nuendo or Protools and - that is a big bummer for me. Currently I compose in Logic but edit and mix in Nuendo. I am very satisfied with the results I get - Oasys sounds are a part of my sonic signature. Could I get it in Oasys alone? No. Could I get my current sound without Oasys. Probably not. I am happy I managed to combine both worlds:-).

[marvelous88s]

Thanks guys for the replys - some of which I have given thought too, some not.

I did get an iMac 20 from a client trade-out this past Friday. I wanted the 24 but this will get me started.

For now I will ease into this mostly with recording OASYS midi, a little live guitar and a few vocals. I want to easily edit O midi, my primary goal.

I thought I would start with the Apogee Duet and Logic Express.
I will place the screen directly above the O's screen. The mouse I can create a pad for it on the O just above the Mode and Utility buttons.

Does Logic require much interaction with the computer keyboard? Now that I write that though I can surmise that it is prbobably very useful for menu shortcuts. I'am sure I can adapt a mount to hold it just to the right of the mouse then.

Is it easier to record straight into Logic or can I do the quick and easy record on the O and move it into Logic later for edits? I think I would prefer that to start.

Sorry to read about the shortcomming of analog editing in Logic - it seems cumbersome to have to use multiple platforms, but I suppose some of it is what you get used to and is comfortable to you.

I know I am in for a learning curve, dare I say experience? But your reports are encouraging and motivating.

Will report back from time to time with questions and progress.

Lastly, is there a Logic group within this OASYS forum?

Thanks!

Marv

[Daz]

Does Logic require much interaction with the computer keyboard? Now that I write that though I can surmise that it is prbobably very useful for menu shortcuts. I'am sure I can adapt a mount to hold it just to the right of the mouse then.

Logic uses a lot of single keystroke sequences (for example 'M' to mute the currently selected object or '/' to enable looping) and that is the most efficient way to work it, however you can drive it with the mouse pretty much entirely if you wish.

Lastly, is there a Logic group within this OASYS forum?

No, but here are some great Logic forums :

http://www.logicprohelp.com

http://community.sonikmatter.com/forums/

http://www.bigbluelounge.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=2

I would recommend reading the following book to get yourself up and running as quickly as possible :

http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Pro-Trainin ... 0321502922

The Logic 8 manual is not a light and breezy read

I thought I would start with the Apogee Duet and Logic Express.

Do you already have other arrangements for MIDI. The Duet is great, but audio only. Even if you only intend to work with audio, you'll probably still want MIDI sync for tempo synced and KARMA. If you want that kind of quality with MIDI too check out RME Fireface 400 (the mini Fireface 800). My RME has served me incredibly well. You might also consider using the SPDIF ports on the iMac to hook up your Oasys. You'll want to use an aggregate audio device to combine that with any audio interface you add on.

Is it easier to record straight into Logic or can I do the quick and easy record on the O and move it into Logic later for edits? I think I would prefer that to start.

Record straight into Logic ! If you want to get MIDI from the Oasys into Logic you'll have to save your song on the Oasys and a Standard MIDI file and then import that into Logic. There are so fiddles with doing that for the uninitiated.

[przemm]

The whole idea of putting your mouse on Oasys with the screen behind it seems to not ergonomic to me - you will have to strech for your mouse, your hand will stay in an uncomfortable position during edits. IMO it is far better to put a DAW system on the left of your Oasys and use a office chair just to turn to the screen - once you get into Logic, you will notice that you will spend more time in your DAW working on your songs than on the O. Apart from that the display will create unnecessary reflections if placed in between the speakers. It is just my experience. I usually start the song on the Oasys - first inspiration, than fishing for/creating sounds, recording some brief ideas in O sequencer - then I start working with Logic and from that point I work more with the DAW than with the O. When the arrangement is finished, the Oasys remains switched off. I don't know what workflow you will work out, but I think it is worth to take ergonomics into consideration - your hands and eyes will be very grateful

[Charlie]

Your chosen setup is nearly a copy of mine. I work with Apogee Duett too and it sounds very well. Of course you'll need a Midi-Interface in addition - but those are rather cheap compared to audio-interfaces. Recording Oasys through this audio-interface will produce an excellent sound. BTW I never managed to make the direct spdif-connection work. Got the cable and everything, but just couldn't get the sound out the imac. But then I learned from some professionals that they prefer recording via an audio-interface anyway if it sounds good - it can sound warmer than the direct digital signal. As I like Apogee's sound that suits me well.

I've placed the slim apple-keyboard on the right side of the Oasys-screen. You'll need it all the time for using the various logic-commands. So ideally it's in front of you or very close to that.

I did not like my setup with the computer on the left (or right) side as described by przemm. My Oasys is always on and I prefer just raising my eyes instead of turning away from it to a sort of second workplace.

However, przemm is right with the uncomfortable position you'll end up if you place the mouse on the oasys: your back and your hand will hurt rather quickly (believe me - I've tried it). Solution: get a small table and place it beside you and put you bluetooth-mouse there. I even switched to left-hand-mouse-use (jesus - what a word ) so I can move the cursor with my left hand and use the apple-keyboard with my right ... or both hands on the keyboard without turning anywhere.

Again I recommend the small introductionary manual for logic express (it's on the DVD or I believe you can download it from Apple). I got that one in German and it was a easy to understand. Most likely dedicated books are better, but for beginning the short manual will do.

As for Apoggee Duett: this one comes with the Maestro software offering different setups. You can configure one setup and store it (eg "Recording Oasys" or "Oasys without Logic"). Then you make the next setup eg. "Recording Guitars" and so on. This will save you lots of time in your studio and switching between the various setups is just a mouse-click.

If you need any help with iMac/Oasys/Duett/LogicExpress let me know - this setup is "my world".

EDIT: Daz, thanks for the Logic-Links!!

[Daz]

Some videos for you :

http://www.apple.com/logicstudio/tutorials/
http://www.zoom-in.com/logic-quicktips?#

[ricky recordo]

An external monitor comes in handy w/ Logic. We have a 24" iMac connected to a 40" Sony Bravia so everyone in the control room can see what's happening. A wireless keyboard and mouse gives us freedom to control Logic from anywhere in the room. We also use ProRemote on an iPod - it's a great app for controlling Logic and/or ProTools basic transport and mix functions, and as it is on the wifi network it works from anywhere in the studio.

Gonna pick up a Logitech Dinovo mini BT keyboard as well today, very nice, compact, and is Mac friendly.

[marvelous88s]

Again thank you all for the insights - they are very helpful.

As to MIDI and audio interfaces. Is there a firewire mixer that would handle both the midi and the audio interface to the MAC? I can see this being a better way to go than a couple of small boxes that leave you without expansion options and will also give you more setup possibilities.

Is the TASCAM FW-1082 Audio/MIDI Interface and Control Surface an option? Something like it that matches the audio side of the OASYS and the ease of interface to LOGIC? I ike that the Apogee Duet has software "linked" to Logic are there other products (mixers) that integrate better with MAC/Logic?

DAZ I been reading - thanks for those links.

Marv

[ricky recordo]

hey marvellous88s

I tried out a couple of different I/O devices, but fell in love with the Yamaha N12. Very simple, great preamps, passes MIDI through 2 I/O ports, but if you're looking for a control surface as well, look elsewhere. Being a Yamaha/Steinberg design, the N12 is designed to integrate perfectly with Cubase, which it does beautifully, but I have been a Logic guy for 20 years (ok so it was C-Lab Notator back in those days and ran on my faithful old Atari STE)... anyway, I by far prefer Logic, so the integration between Cubase and N12 was not the reason I went with the N12.

It's intuitive in use and sounds fabulous. N8 is smaller but very nice as well.

SOS review:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul08/a ... ahan12.htm

There are many other great ways to get your music into and out of Logic, of course!

[przemm]

Hi Marv

I have tried several MIDI interfaces (Edirol, M-audio) and I had many problems with my Oasys and MIDI. Then I switched to motu midi express 128 and everything works perfect in Logic and Nuendo.

Instead of the mixer, I'd rather choose separate components - Tascam converters are not on pair with Apogee - also as a controller it is very limited - no channel strip display makes using 8 faders difficult. IMO the converters are a very important element of the studio setup. The difference between the budget ones and for example my Apogee AD/DA 16x is stunning - you can easily hear it on separate tracks, but they really shine on the mixing phase - more air, space, 3D, separation etc. etc.

Apogee duet has got far better converters than everything on the market in this price range. For me it is no brainer. Considering your needs I would add a simple, one-channel control surface. like Presonus Faderport, that you could put on your Oasys - you will have one fader and transport controls plus some other functions. N12 is a very good device, but I stay away from Yamaha products after purchasing Yamaha O1X mixer/FW interface/controller - they released the product with many huge bugs -(e.g. problems with audio synchronization!) and it took ages for them to iron them out. Also they made false promises.

IMO, the budget hardware mixers compromise the sound and are simply obsolete at home/project studio where the signals can be monitored/routed through SW mixers. It is better to have one good preamp than 8 medicore ones (unless you record the whole band).
Minimal but quality setup will allow you to get great results at home/project studio.

Anyway, Oasys requires good company, but it is the musician/audio engineer than makes the biggest difference, not the tools.