Avoiding cutting the sound when changing prog/combi/seq

[JohanHult]

A lot of people have been asking about the problem with the sound "cutting" when changing program, or especially combi (or seq). I was also annoyed by this when getting my tr61, and spent some time trying to find workarounds. Here are the way I do things when playing live.


Workaround using only the TR

I make a seq (works with combi aswell) with all the sounds I want to use (on different timbers), assigned to different parts of the keybed. Ex. I have a piano at the lower range of the keybed and a flute or whatever at the higher range (and maybe even some other sounds in the middle). So when changing sound I just change where I play on the keybed istead of loading a new seq. That way I don't get any cuts.

If I need to use a large part of the keybed for some sounds, I sometimes assign other sounds on keys ranging "outside" the keybed. Then when I want to change to another sound I just transfer the keybed an octave up or down by having it assign to the SW buttons. (tip.: you could assign a pedal to one of the SW buttons, so that you could change octave with a pedal, that way having your hands free.)

Workaround using a midi keyboard

I make a similar seq as before, combining all the sounds I need for a song on different timbres. But instead of assigning different sounds to different keys, I assign it to different midi channels. I could have some pad sound assigned to global channel, or channel 1 or whatever I want. And then have another sound, maybe some organs, assigned to a different channel, lets say channel 4. Then I hook up a midi keyboard to my korg and set it to send on ch4.

Now I can play pads on my TR, and changing to organs by just switching to the midi keyboard. All the sounds are comming from my TR, and no program changes are made. Wich means, no cutting.

Limitations

The limitations of using these metods are in the effects. You can only have 1 IFX and 2 MFX on each seq or combi. You can assign the IFX to a spesific sound, but then you can't assign a different IFX to any of the other sounds.

Well, I hope some can take advantages of this since it seems alot of people strugle with it. But don't get to cought up. Sometimes I still just change seq in the middle of a song and cutting my sound. With the right timing nobody even notice it but me

(my first post by the way, so be gentle :p)

[JohanHult]

Workaround using the TR's seq-mode

In sequencing mode, compared to combi, only the selected track (linked with every other sound set to the same channel as the selected track) will make any sound. Ex. you have piano on track 1 set to ch1 and a pad on track 2 set to ch2. When track 1 is selected you only get the piano sound, and when track 2 is selected, well you get it :p But the great thing is that now you can change between track 1 and 2 without cutting any sound or effect.

But lets say you want multilayered sounds and change between them, something like this:

sound 1: piano + pad
sound 2: strings + bells
sound 3: guitar

First make a new song. Then I would organize it like this:

track 1: piano (ch1)
track 2: strings (ch2)
track 3: guitar (ch3)

track 4: pad (ch1)
track 5: bells (ch2)

The reason I set the pad and bells on tracks after the other three, is that now I would only have to change between track 1 to 3, and not having to skip tracks to get the right sound. The piano and pad will play together when either track 1 or 4 is selected, since they are both routed to channel 1.


This method is probably the one wich is most similar to how people would play with an organized combi. The cool thing though is that you can name each song and have a really well organized set up. And of course, no damn cutting of the sound :p

I think I might gotten this idea from some of kanthos's posts by the way. So respect

[Ozz]

Hi

Nice first post

The SEQ mode was the main reason for me to choose the TR, when you need more keys or diferents sets over the whole keyboard the best solution is to have a midi keyboard assigned to other channel but u still can solve it just with the TR.

Normally a Combi has no more than 4-5 programas being played by you at the same time, excluding drums/bass/etc lines played by ARP, even if the combi has more they are key zone or velocity zone switched becoz you have the polyphony limit.

Considering this, in SEQ mode you can arrange easily 4 differents sets in one Song using differents MIDI channels.

If u r using only the TR you can switch between them in the Track parameter but you dont has to send any MIDI signal (pressed keys, damper pedal, etc) at the moment to press enter, but you dont hear any kind of cut.

About the FXs, you've to be clever with the selection of them, the MFXs could be a reverb and a chorus/other and the IFX depend of your main instrument or you can search for one adequate for the mayority of your programs or something you need for programs like Pianos (compressor/7-bandEQ, etc)

A lot of keyboards players have asked me if I use sequences/backing tracks/etc when I play becoz sometimes I use a lot of instruments and make changes between them like crazy, and I've seen in this forum and others a lot of questions about how to solve the cutting problem not only on the Triton series, also no other pro synths, or how to make rapid programs/combi changes to play live.. and maybe the SEQ mode is the best way to solve this.

Regards
Ozz

[kanthos]

I think I might gotten this idea from some of kanthos's posts by the way. So respect

You did indeed, though I got the idea from X-Trade. He posted it in a pretty brief form, I believe, I said more about it in some of my posts, and your version has an example.

[corteskiller]

Hi,

I tried what was suggested, but for changing the tracks I have to stop pressing the keys. If I am playing a chord for ex. does not change to the other track (sound). Is this right?


Cheers

[Ozz]

@corteskiller

Yep, you've to stop pressing keys or pedals. the trick here is coordinate the switching of the track in the right moment that you stop pressing keys.

what's the difference with changing programs or combis, if u use sounds with long release or reverb you won't hear any kind of sound glitch, cut.

if you play with a second controller you can assign it to other track and problem solved xD.

maybe this would be usefull. you can write the number of the new track when you are pressing keys/damper/etc a lot of time before the track change, and when u've to do it, just coordinate the exact time when you unhold the keys to press enter.

Regards
Alvaro.

[corteskiller]

Thanks Alvaro, so it is not as smart as I though...

Saludos from Santiago ...

[kanthos]

I don't think you need your hands off the keys to switch combis or programs, though I use a footpedal to move from one to the next when I'm playing in combi mode, so that might be a workaround. In sequencer mode, though, you definitely need to take your hands off the keys, though you can hit the sustain pedal to keep the old notes sounding while you switch.

[WhateverItTakes]

so, i love the posts...i had no idea i could handle multiple sounds by using the sequencer...

so, i've been struggling using the manual and tinkering with my tr61 trying to combine sounds the way i need them. i'm curious, is there anohter resource besides the original manual that gives a more straightforward understanding of the functions...

i'm actually an applications engineer (if you can believe that) and i'm tearing my hair out. every time i think i understand this thing, it seems to do something other than what i expect.

i almost wish there was somewhere i could take "lessons" on how to configure this thing...

oooo, how bout youtube-esque videos?? anybody know of any? i have the basic functions down, but i want to learn the sequencer style and external midi keyboard style of programming this thing for multiple sounds, and i'm just getting to my witts end. i guess part of this stems from me being more the bassist, and a partial keyboardist in my band.

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

[kanthos]

There's a bunch of Youtube videos on the M50 and M3 that Korg put out (I think the username on youtube is KorgUSA). Almost everything there applies here.

[Ozz]

Hi

@WhateverItTakes

The manual has almost all the information that u need, the rest its patience and curiosity... and lots of time xD
Only you know what sounds you need/want and how to play it, u've to try to put your ideas in the keyboard
But a little help its always nice

I own a TR61, so I've to be imaginative on how I arrange my sequencer sets to play live, becoz sometimes I need more keys.
One way is to split the keyboard and even play with some sections transposed, other is to use differents MIDI channels and alternate between them.. in each channels also I can have split/layer zones.

In this link I've a set that I used to play The Final Countdown
http://rapidshare.com/files/346549639/TFC_KF.SNG.html

I use only factory preloaded programs, so if u've edited/changed them, the sound could be different. Here is a little explanation about what you will find

a.- I use only the first 8 tracks on this way:

1.- Tracks 1 and 2 for the explosion sound on the intro... they are affected by damper signal and the pitch bend range is zero on T1 and 24 on T2
From C-1 To C2 (only C2 on the 61keybed), Transposed as F#

2.- T3 & T4 the pad used for the chords, a saw strings and a synthy bells. they are affected by damper signal, the pitch bend range is zero on both tracks, and the assignable knob 2 change the pitch on the saw string by +-1octave (for the intro)
From C#2 to A#4

3.- T5 & T8 the lead sound... no damper signal, zero pitch bend range on T5 the normal 2 on T8...
T5 From B4 to E6
T8 Only F#6

4.- T6 & T7 the vocal pad for the last part on the intro, no damper, pitch bend on 2
Here I made a little trick.. this trick involve the T8(F#6) of the lead sound that I use sometime just to play arround at the end, so the remaining keys (T7 from G6 to G9 and T6 just F6) are transposed to play C#, E, F#, G#, A just playing FGABC
so T6 is transposed -4 and T7 -3

b.- The FXs are a Stereo Compressor for T1, T2, T5 and T8 as IFX and Stereo Chorus and Reverb Small Hall as masters
I choice them comparing the FX routing of all the programs that I use and listeting without the FXs to see if they loss is a lot or not, then I select the ones that I found more appropiates.. the same goes for the EQ

c.- I only use the pitch bend on the explosion on the intro, so its no need to change the parameter on all the tracks, but u can see on this set how it work on differents ranges on one set

d.- I only omitted the bass synth on the intro, becoz I play the intro with the bassist, but the damper signal affect the pad if i wanna play some bass with the pad and hold the chord or made the octave up effect on the intro

I hope that u'll find usefull this post.. and the set if u play The Final Countdown some day

Regards
Alvaro.

[WhateverItTakes]

Thanks ozz.

Looks like i have a lot of work ahead of me.

I'm guessing there's a lot of posts that i can dig from, i have a plethora of songs that can use some added sounds... so like you said, time is everything

thanks again!

[Ozz]

Yep

All you need is time and imagination, only you know how do u want to play your songs, wich keys do u need and what sounds do u need.

with some work you could made really good sets using split/layers.. or in one SEQ song you could route differents set through differents MIDI channels

have a lot of fun using your synth

Regards
Alvaro

[Terzi]

- - Then when I want to change to another sound I just transfer the keybed an octave up or down by having it assign to the SW buttons. (tip.: you could assign a pedal to one of the SW buttons, so that you could change octave with a pedal, that way having your hands free.)

Sounds useful. How is this actually done?

[kanthos]

Go into the Ctrl page (2.2.1, I think) and you can change the assignments for the two switches (SW1 and SW2). Set either to be octave up or octave down.

If you want to set a switch pedal to control this, go into global settings and change the pedal assignment (can't remember the exact page number, but its tab is titled Foot)