Volume boost in a combi

6corde1neurone · Post by **6corde1neurone** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:32 pm

Hi, sorry for the dumb question but I don't know how to increase the volume of a single program in a combi over the default level (that is the top, I assume..).
In my case I have a single-program combi with a lead, but the volume is too low and I can't just decrease all the other combinations of the song.

(again, sorry for my english)

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:21 pm

I tend to mix thinking that the 'normal' would be 100, thus giving an extra 27 for boosting things. So the best solution would be to lower everything else - surely that would have the same effect as just turning up this single instrument track? (it also helps to avoid clipping and provides a more reasonably balanced, professional mix in general. You shouldn't push everything to the max).

However, if you for some inexplicable reason can't justify doing that, there are other alternatives. You basically want this sound to come to the forefront of the mix. You can do this with effects - apply less reverb send, less chorus/flange. Phase is okay.
Also you can insert an insert effect at the start of its effect chain (if it has one), of a Limiter, Compressor, or some light (read very subtle) distortion or overdrive.
Or just better use of the EQ to bring out that instrument in the frequency region of the mix where it matters - usually for lead sounds this will be near the top of the 'musical' spectrum (i.e. not 20k, generally below 10k).

6corde1neurone · Post by **6corde1neurone** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:55 pm

X-Trade wrote:I tend to mix thinking that the 'normal' would be 100, thus giving an extra 27 for boosting things. So the best solution would be to lower everything else - surely that would have the same effect as just turning up this single instrument track? (it also helps to avoid clipping and provides a more reasonably balanced, professional mix in general. You shouldn't push everything to the max).

However, if you for some inexplicable reason can't justify doing that, there are other alternatives. You basically want this sound to come to the forefront of the mix. You can do this with effects - apply less reverb send, less chorus/flange. Phase is okay.
Also you can insert an insert effect at the start of its effect chain (if it has one), of a Limiter, Compressor, or some light (read very subtle) distortion or overdrive.
Or just better use of the EQ to bring out that instrument in the frequency region of the mix where it matters - usually for lead sounds this will be near the top of the 'musical' spectrum (i.e. not 20k, generally below 10k).

The problem was not to make a louder instrument track in an ensamble, but to make a combi with one single instrument louder than the combinations I created before.

But the suggestion of putting by default the track volume to 100 it's so convincing that I'll change every combi..

Thank you again!

(you put to 100 even the Master in the MFX/TFX Routing page?)

mocando · Post by **mocando** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:27 pm

Some instruments are louder than others by design. I don't remember the reason why, but someone here explained it a few months back.

The reason why one combi sounds louder than other using the same instrument (in a recently created combi) is not because of the mixer settings, but the filters. When you use "copy from program" while creating a combi, make sure you select all filter settings so you'll have an exact copy of the program the way it was designed. It will sound the same on every combi you use it.

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:10 am

mocando wrote:Some instruments are louder than others by design. I don't remember the reason why, but someone here explained it a few months back.

The reason why one combi sounds louder than other using the same instrument (in a recently created combi) is not because of the mixer settings, but the filters. When you use "copy from program" while creating a combi, make sure you select all filter settings so you'll have an exact copy of the program the way it was designed. It will sound the same on every combi you use it.

I assume you mean the Effects? i've heard people refer to them as Filters occasionally, for some reason.

as I mentioned, things like overdrive, limiters, compressors, and EQ can make things louder.

I also got the impression from the opening post that they were using custom built combis specific to a song.

Also as you know, it isn't always possible to copy all effects from every program you use in a combi.

mocando · Post by **mocando** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:32 am

X-Trade wrote:I assume you mean the Effects? i've heard people refer to them as Filters occasionally, for some reason.

as I mentioned, things like overdrive, limiters, compressors, and EQ can make things louder.

I also got the impression from the opening post that they were using custom built combis specific to a song.

Also as you know, it isn't always possible to copy all effects from every program you use in a combi.

Yeah, it's me AGAIN

I don't know why I keep mixing filters and effects. I think it got to do with being a photographer and writing a post while in automatic mode (physically and mentally wasted)

Sorry man, I keep doing it. Some day you'll call me Mr. Filterman

Hey! Is not a bad name for a forum user anyway

Synastikki · Post by **Synastikki** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:17 am

That 100 basic with 27 left for boost is otherwise nice, but if you're using some distortion or overdrive effects (or Rotary Speaker OD for example) the distortion/overdrive gets weaker if you lower the volume from the mixer of the combi... this is obvious because the effects are located after the mixer which means that there is a lower input for the effects...

mocando · Post by **mocando** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:04 am

I agree. That's why I keep tweaking the mixer settings all the time. Organ patches are very high volumed. While choir and strings are very low, specially slow synth sounds.

6corde1neurone · Post by **6corde1neurone** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:07 am

So putting to 100 the Master volume in the MFX/TFX Routing page could be a solution?

ksounds · Post by **ksounds** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:32 am

To maximize a program's volume in a combination, set its volume to 127 AND set the EQ Trim (edit page 2-1) to 99.

If you still need more gain, try choosing Stereo Limiter as the Total Effect. Use the Gain Adjust parameter to boost the volume as needed. This effect will compress the combi's dynamic range by default, but if you don't want it to, simply set the Ratio to 1.0:1. That will turn the limiter into a simple gain boost.

This technique also works with insert effects. If you need to boost the volume of one or more programs - but not all of them - route them to the Stereo Limiter assigned to an insert effect block.