Is this a bug with the Load PCG RAM option.

[Sharp]

Hi all.
You will have to excuse me here because I'm feeling sick and my brain has totally switched off because of it. On a normal day I'd be able to answer this myself as it's a basic function. Just goes to show what state I'm in right now here.

Anyway I've recorded a video to demonstrate this, but I'll also type up some more details below as to exactly what I'm doing here.

http://www.korgforums.com/misc/load-pcg-ram.MOV

I load ASSAULT.KSC to memory ( the entire contents of OASYS ASSAULT samples)

Using the copy command I select a ASSAULT.KSC file and paste it back into the same folder as 000.KSC in order to create a copy of the file just with a different name.

I then open the ASSAULT.PCG file and I load sound 000 from the file to memory and into bank U-A which is entirely empty.

I then save bank U-A back to disk as file 000.PCG

Now I empty the entire contents of the Sample by deleting all Multisamples and samples.

Next I go do disk mode and select the file 000.PCG and load it to memory using the Load PCG(RAM and Samples) option.

At this point I expect the OASYS to load only sound U-A 000 to memory and the mulitsamples that are required for this sound to work. But the OASYS loads everything, it loads the entire contents of the KSC file for sounds that are not even in the PCG file.

Surly this is not normal as it defeats the entire purpose of this function.

Regards
Sharp.

[mdh]

Hi Sharp,

Could it be simply that your 000.pcg and 000.ksc files are unrelated? Also the pcg file is made when you still have all the samples in ram - did you select the checkbox when saving it to save all samples as well? that may be problematic in this case

HTH

[Sharp]

Hi mdh.

Could it be simply that your 000.pcg and 000.ksc files are unrelated?

From my understanding of the filing system the only relation needed should be the common name they share with each other.

For example, for a SNG, KSC and PCG file to be loaded at the same time, they must all have the same file name.

My understanding of the Load PCG RAM option would be that it only loads the samples needed to get the sound in the PCG file working, where in actual fact it's loading the entire contents of the KSC file to memory regardless. It's just appending the data rather than using the overwrite method.

Also the pcg file is made when you still have all the samples in ram - did you select the checkbox when saving it to save all samples as well? that may be problematic in this case

Nope, I'm not saving the samples for the single sound in Program mode as KSC file I made a copy of and renamed to 000.KSC will contain the information the LOAD PCG RAM option needs.

If the LOAD PCG RAM option actually only loaded the samples for the sound in the PCG, then everything else in the KSC file should be ignored. But it's not doing that, it's loading everything regardless.

I could fool the OASYS by editing the KSC file with a text editor, but I don't want to do that if the OASYS is supposed to do this right in the first place.

Regards
Sharp

[jerrythek]

Hi Sharp:

You are misunderstanding this concept here. A .KSC file is a remembered macro of a group of saved samples/multisamples. Changing its name will not change its internal structure of what samples/multisamples it is going to "retrieve".

Yes, when there are files with the same name (.PCG, .SNG, .KSC) the OASYS can auto-load them as part of the same process, but that doesn't change the internal pointers of what they load.

See the concept?

regards.

Jerry

[Sharp]

Hi Jerry.
Thanks for your reply but this just confuses me more.

You are misunderstanding this concept here. A .KSC file is a remembered macro of a group of saved samples/multisamples. Changing its name will not change its internal structure of what samples/multisamples it is going to "retrieve".

Totally understand that.

Yes, when there are files with the same name (.PCG, .SNG, .KSC) the OASYS can auto-load them as part of the same process, but that doesn't change the internal pointers of what they load.

But doesn't that only apply to the Load Selected option ?

I thought the function of the “Load PCG(RAM) and Samples” option was that it would look at the PCG file and only load the samples needed from the KSC file to get the sound in the PCG file to work correctly.

If not then how else can you create a custom library of your favourite sounds from a complete Sample Library fully of programs.

Just watching the OASYS loading I can tell it is looking at the PCG file because it is loading the correct samples first and not in order of the KSC file, but then my understanding is it should stop and not load the rest of the KSC file because the PCG file does not contain any more program sounds to look at.

Kind Regards
Sharp.

[Daz]

I thought the function of the “Load PCG(RAM) and Samples” option was that it would look at the PCG file and only load the samples needed from the KSC file to get the sound in the PCG file to work correctly.

The functionality of that command is almost exactly the opposite of that It doesn't selectively load only those samples used by Programs in the PCG, but rather it loads only the Programs that use a sample that is not in ROM. It will always load all the samples referenced in the KSC file regardless of whether Programs or Drum Kits in the PCG make reference to those samples.

Daz.

[Daz]

p.s. It would be great if there was a command that you did what you want ! That would be very useful indeed. I guess we're a little for adding items to the wishlist now

[Sharp]

Thanks Daz.

Well that's a crying shame. Sort of make the this feature pointless in a way because you can do more or less the same just by using the Load Selected option and ticking the Append box since it's just going to load all the samples regardless of the PCG file contents.

I'm trying to break OASYS ASSAULT up into 128 PCG files which allow people to load sounds individually but I don't want to generate 128 new samples sets to go with it when the samples are already exists and the KSC file is the problem.

So the problem is the fact then that they are referenced. Then if I still go ahead and do what I'm doing, it can edit the 128 KSC files with Note Pad and still achieve what I want without generating any new sample data.

Man that's a lot of work just to fool the OASYS into loading only what samples are needed, but it beats the hell out of generating 128 new samples sets and having to reload the main 1.5GB 128 times just to do it.

Regards
Sharp.

[zolhof]

Thanks Daz.

I'm trying to break OASYS ASSAULT up into 128 PCG files which allow people to load sounds individually but I don't want to generate 128 new samples sets to go with it when the samples are already exists and the KSC file is the problem.

Regards
Sharp.

Hi Sharp,

that's exactly what I do, I have many different KSC/PCG custom files to load a particular soundset for a particular gig. It sucks, I know. It would be great to be able load just some samples of a big KSC files using a PCG as reference, but I don't think it's possible and/or don't know how to do it.

[Sharp]

Hi zolhof.

I was thinking about this and if I just created 128 PCG and 128 KSC files, the chances of the same sample data being used in another sound and loaded to memory twice is extremely high, so this is not the way to approach this problem at all. It would waste memory.

What's needed is some tool that can write KSC files dynamically based on what sound you select to be in your PCG file. I'm trying to write something here now, but it will only be compatible with OASYS ASSAULT if I can do this at all.

If I get anywhere with this I'll look at writing an universal tool later.

Regards
Sharp.