Kaossilator Pro - the Pro is a joke!

[roxxx303]

Hi Folks!
I really loved the old Kaossilator! But I dreamed of a Kaossilator 2 for two years !
Now the Pro is there and I bought it a week ago.
But I am really sad about it!
It could have been so great but Korg killed it by saving some little money for production costs:

1. Too little RAM! Memory is so cheap today! So why is there no UNDO???
This kills all the fun! You must always save to SD-Card to prevent playing wrong notes on overdubs which last about half a minute because of the cheap slow old-standard SD-Drive!
Even the old Kaossilator had a fix/Undo-Function!
Today every Software and every Musical-Instrument has an Undo-Buffer. It's a joke that the "PRO" doesn't!

2. No Track-Copy and no Bouncing-Possibility. This is so unbelievable!
I'm a Software-Architect and could write such Functions in no Time.
I think the KPro is so castrated only to sell the KP3 too!
Shame on you Korg!

3. The s**t with overwriting Loops by accident:
The recording Button is NOT activated and you play on the pad and activate/mute the Tracks. Then you realize that your Loops are messed up with short Overdubs. And you didn't saved to CARD before!!!
This is so BAD. Why does it overwrite though the record-button is not pressed? No DAW does such things!

4. No Song-Mode.
If the Unit had more RAM they could have implemented a Song-Mode like this:
With a special Button-Combination you could save 8 x 4 Loops behind each Programm-Button. In Song Mode you could chain the 8 x 4 Loops to a Song. This would be so cool.

5. Slow Hardware:
- The USB-Interface is soo slow! In USB-Drive-Mode it takes 6 minutes to copy 10 All-Saved Koa-Files to my Computer (less than 60 MegaByte)!
When I put the SD-Card into my computer the files are copied in half a minute!
I think they put in a cheap old standard USB 1.0-Interface!
- The SD-Card-Drive is soo slow! It must be old standard too because it also only reads 2 Gigabyte and no SDHC SD-Cards!

6. Bad Midi-Implementation:
- no midi-note-out in normal mode
- in external mode you have midi-note-out with key and scale but no arp so this kills the fun playing external Synth!
- via Midi in you cannot play notes on the KPro with a normal Midi-keyboard attached.
- No start/stop-synchronisation

7. Why can I only save 10 All-Programms to SD-Card???
I don't want to save each of the 4 loops separately, so I use SAVE ALL.
But there are only slots 0 to 9 -> 10 Versions possible!
This is really BAD. I want 99!

8. The old Arpeggiator-Patterns are gone!
You can have some fun with the new fader method. But try to record a Solo with an interesting ARP-Pattern by fumbling with the fader and at the same time concentrate on playing correct notes.
And you MUST concentrate on the notes because the choosen SCALE does not fit to the LED-Segments - which is another Issue!
And I will know how long the fader will survive? Such a fader isn't built for very fast fumbling all the time!

I really hope Korg will soon release an OS-Update with an undo/fix-function (perhaps if you use only 8 Beats the memory of the other 8 Beats could be used as an undo-buffer like in the KO-1) and a copy-/bounce-/mix- Track-Function and fix the overdub by accident-problem.

Otherwise I will sell the KPro and keep the KO-1!

[samartin]

To be honest, stick with it, you will overcome the shortcomings.

I totally agree with what you've written, but since you have bought into it, just stick with it. It is IMHO worth sticking with, it's fun, and it's relatively easy to dream up concepts.

Check out Denkitribe on Youtube, he performs like he's at one with the unit. I feel like I'm starting to get to grips with the unit these days.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBrBSMdlF-w

[Radian]

I don't think anyone could deny that there's a rapidly forming consensus about the perceived deficiencies of the KPRO. I hope this in itself leads to some improvements by way of future firmware update. However, the hardware is a "given" and memory size, speed of processing and peripheral interfaces are going to remain as they are (at least for the early adopters - should Korg ever revise the hardware).

Because of this I think it would be beneficial to focus on those things that could be implemented in firmware, paying special attention to changes that work-around the hardware limitations. So for example, rather than petition for an (impossible doubling of memory) undo - talk-up the ability to re-sample from chosen bank(s) to another to give at least one safe place to put stuff. Admittedly this makes it necessary for people to have a deeper understanding of the way the KPRO works, but I see plenty of good explanations in this forum. Keep the great insights coming!

[Mr36]

In the defence of a machine that has no real voice of its own:

No undo seems to fit with the "Pro" idea, whereas the original was more of a toy. You don't have an undo feature on "real" instruments!
Admittedly, this isn't a solid defence but I would assume that the need for double the memory for each of the banks would have just been too much memory to fit into a still quite small box.

The bouncing facility would have been most welcome, however, you can hardly blame Korg or any company worth its weight for purposely not overlapping and therefore competing with their own products. If the KPro had been made to do all the things the KP3 could do, the sales of the latter would have almost disappeared. They are a company and are in the business of making musical devices but only to make money.

Although I think it could have been gotten round (by maybe having to arm the Rec button before the bank buttons being able to record), the overdubbing by accident cannot really be blamed 100% on them, as the user knows that this happens and should just avoid having the pad pressed while pressing bank buttons, just as a guitarist knows not to press down on the strings directly on the frets. The KPro is but a machine and does only what you make it do. Also, hardly fair to compare with a DAW!

They could have implemented a song mode, just like they could have implemented various other things. But it was known months ago that there would be no sequencer or song mode as such.

The KPro is simply sorry it's so slow. He has no defence.

The same goes for the MIDI implementation. There should have at least been a way to directly control the sounds using a MIDI controller without having to route it through a computer.

As for saving loops, save them separately. I know you said you don't want to, but the functionality is there to save more than 40 loops (10 All program files).


Despite this defence, I think there are some bugs that could have been easily ironed out and even if they weren't easy, it is their job to do such things. However, as samartin said, you will overcome its shortcomings. If you stop worrying about its limitations and concentrate on what it can do, there are few people in the world who could still claim it's not worth £300.

P.S. I am not working for Korg or on commission for them before anyone makes a joke.
It just seems unfair to complain about things that tend not to be included (all of them anyway) in a device at the cheap end of the pro-audio market.

[Ricoche]

I totally agree with the first poster.

I just recently purchased the Kpro and am not happy with the product at all. What bothers me the most is the lack of Midi features and just about everything mentioned already. I may sell it, but I also may hold onto it just to see if a firmware update might help "uncripple" this unit. I think Korg makes great gear, but you can't win them all and in this case I feel the Kpro is a $400+ dud.

To me, I actually think the KP3 is a much better unit on all levels. I bought the KP3 last year and really like it. I'm feeling a bit ripped off though with the Kpro and will definitely have to work extra hard to find value in it over the other Korg products I've purchased.

Just my 2 cents on the subject.

Thanks.

Note I live in Japan and have chatted with several people working for music stores. They all claim the Kpro is not selling well at the moment.

[laikenf]

I REALLY don't want to sound (or read) like a snob, and I understand that some shortcomings on this device could be very frustrating. But EVERY gear I've EVER used during my 18 years as a musician has had shortcomings of their own. Imagine during the early 80's if people would've chosen to ONLY complain about the Roland TB-303 and dismiss it as a "very limited synth/ sequencer" instead of working around it's limitations. Trust me, the 303 wasn't very well recieved when it hit the market.

I just think that one could easily get distracted when frustrated (and being overly vocal about such frustrations can get you blocked, in bad way), and, again, I understand perfectly where those frustrations come from; but when you REALLY want to create something there are no such things as limitations. Be warm and nice to your gear (just like plants, sweet talking to them is always a good thing); tell people how awesome your setup is. Not only will you notice that your hardware is WAY more capable than what you ou give it credit for, but you will see that there is nothing you CAN'T do on it.

[Mr36]

laikenf... I salute you.

[curtaineater]

I clicked this topic thinking this would be some baseless rant...its not. I agree 100% with what the OP said.

Its is so aggravating that korg dropped the ball on so many easy, minor issues. Besides the truth in the OP saying "I think the KPro is so castrated only to sell the KP3 too!", I also think they were just being cheapasses. Seriously, ram is SO cheap, usb 2.0 ports are just as cheap and faster sd slots are also dirt cheap. They could have tacked on an extra $5 to each unit's sale price and more than covered those minor things.

I also think they were just plain lazy in the programming department when it comes to not being able to save more than 10 'all' batches. I hadn't realized that until I read this. wtf! Why put a hard limitation on an interchangeable device like an SD card!?!?

Korg, you've come close. I really like this thing but I don't $400 like it. The first kaossilator was like a little musical sketch pad. It was priced accordingly and fairly. This unit seems like it was cut off at the knees. It doesn't stand up to all the hype or the $400 price tag. Please get your s**t together and get a firmware update out there just to appease those of us who already bought this. Then go ahead and piss us off be releasing a more robust version with all the needed hardware changes. Trust me, we wont mind.

[Mr36]

For $400/£300, what else can you get that does all the things that the KPro DOES do?

[curtaineater]

any number of soft synths and a midi controller.

i understand its filling a gap in the market. i love the thing despite its flaws, but i really think the didn't make the full effort to bring it from the old one to the pro. whoever called it the 'kaossilator pre' was dead on. they took too many short cuts which puts a bad taste in everyone' mouths.

[Mr36]

So you're saying for £300 you can get a computer that's up to spec, a good range of soft synths and a MIDI controller?

Interesting. I think I'd like to know where you shop.

[Mr36]

Oh, and an interface for connecting external audio.

[salamanderanagram]

agree with original poster...
was really excited to see this hit the market but the more info we were able to pull out of rich the less excited i was. until finally i decided i was simply not interested in the kpro at all...

i guess if you find playing/looping 100 presets to be a useful function then there's nothing else that does exactly what the kpro does. but if you want to use it to actually write music, well i just don't see it as being useful in that regard. what cost the same and also allows you to loop presets? freaking launchpad + free copy of ableton would probably be better imo (and half the price). at least then you could have polyphony.

as for comparisons to the 303, sorry but that was 25 years ago, things have moved along quite a bit in that time. also, the 303 was not that well received because it was actually not very good at doing what it was designed for. just my opinion, but the 303 is still ridiculously overrated/overpriced. i can't believe people pay $1000s for them...

[Mr36]

But Launchpad and Ableton requires a computer...

Ableton can undoubtedly do more and do it better than the KPro but due to requiring a computer is unfair to compare with it.
I don't have a KPro to loop 100 presets. In fact, I'll hardly use the presets and use other things for the sounds but the fact that I don't need to set up a laptop to play live is priceless.

If you never intend on using it live and don't mind using a computer for hours at a time, get Ableton.

There is nothing else that offers what the KPro offers using only hardware.

[curtaineater]

Oh, and an interface for connecting external audio.

yeah, one of those too. it can be done. i do understand the desire to not need a laptop. using one to make music can be cumbersome. the electribe ESX does nearly all the same stuff as the k-pro and is a similar price. i think the electribe feels more worth the money.

do you work for korg or something? you're constantly riding my ass... we're all just stating opinions, we can disagree.