ESX + Kaossilator Pro?

polyoptics · Post by **polyoptics** » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:27 pm

Hi all,

I recently purchased a Kaossilator Pro, I love it, but find the limit of 4 banks to be a bit of a road block.

In my research I was looking at the ESX and wondering if it would be a good companion for sampling from the Kpro, so that I can free up the banks for new patterns, as the ESX loop plays the recoded patterns.

The ESX can do a lot of other great things too, of course, which I am excited about, but as a base I am wondering if it would be able to fill this roll.

Specifically:
I used to use a Kpro + a Kp3, but I returned the Kp3 as it would not play nice with the Kpro going out of sync within a few minutes of play.

Does anyone know if the ESX would play in sync with the Kpro, without the use of computers and midi clock syncing? Currently I have 2 Kpros as they play in perfect sync, but this is not ideal and I would rather just have 1 kpro and a proper (simple) sampler.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. I have found these forums to be a fantastic wealth of information, thanks to all contributors!!

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:32 pm

AFAIK the sync problem is with the KOPro and the KP3 in that the audio looping drifts out with the clock. The clock is only transmitting the beat of the tempo, but the audio isn't actually aligned to that. They are just supposed to be the same tempo, but the audio drifts because the sample length to fit into the tempo is often fractional, or something like that.

So no matter what you try to sync to the KOPro or KP3, it will go out of sync. Probably. I'd like hear someone say otherwise though.

And you'd still have to use MIDI if it did work. That is THE way to get things to play in sync, when it works (which is usually does for other products. I just don't think KORG has the hang of clock-sync audio looping yet)

Also, the ESX isn't really aimed at live sampling or looping. You could probably sample live, again I'm not too sure. But the idea of definately the ES1 I have is that you sample individual instruments for example certain drums or synth notes, and then trigger them back through sequencing - different to audio looping. It is primarily a drum and groove machine where the samples are triggered and played back on the beat, you can easily turn on/off different steps for a sound. Whereas with an audio looper it is effectively just a sound-on-sound delay.

Example of the operation of an electribe:
- you choose a sound, or on the more synthy ones, you design a sound. So for example you say 'part 1 is my kick drum'
- then you say 'and I want it to play on beats 1, 3, 4, 8, and 14.'

So I don't think that the ESX would do specifically what you want. I do however think it may complement your KOPro nicely.

polyoptics · Post by **polyoptics** » Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:37 pm

Thanks very much for the reply.

That's very interesting... and very unfortunate! I may end up just sticking with the 2x Kpros as I use computers all day long at work and REALLY dont want to introduce them to my free time....

Its really too bad about the out of sync stuff, I get the feeling it a lot more of a complex issue than I perceive it to be. I w3as hoping it was limited to jsut he Kp3...

Hrrmmmm....

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:53 pm

polyoptics wrote:Thanks very much for the reply.

That's very interesting... and very unfortunate! I may end up just sticking with the 2x Kpros as I use computers all day long at work and REALLY dont want to introduce them to my free time....

Its really too bad about the out of sync stuff, I get the feeling it a lot more of a complex issue than I perceive it to be. I w3as hoping it was limited to jsut he Kp3...

Hrrmmmm....

Well I thought I saw it being mentioned as an issue with the KOPro too, but I'm not sure. I don't have one so can't check it.

I don't by any means suggest that you use a computer. I try to arrange as much as my own stuff live and only use a computer effectively as a multi track recorder because standalone hard disk recorders are prohibitively expensive.

By the way, two KOPro's sounds like a great combination. I still would recommend an Electibe or something with keys, depending on the sync situation. See if someone else chimes in on that.

aschultz · Post by **aschultz** » Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:17 pm

You may want to pose the same question in the Kaoss forum section, as they have some good insight as to the sync issues with the KP3 and I am assuming they would know about any issues with the KPRO. I have a KP3 and an ESX and I never have much success syncing the ESX with the samples in my loop banks on the KP3 (while using the KP3 as master and ESX as slave). They are constantly drifting apart, but I was told that this has to do with the clock issues on the KP3.

I have only had my ESX a few months and I have not dug deep enough into the ESX to figure out how tough it would be to sample during a live set. I am in the same boat as you on the computer situation. I am strictly a hardware guy...knobs and buttons for me! I have the original Kaossilator and have had pretty good success using it through the Audio In on the ESX, because you can include/exclude the Audio In based on the 16 steps of the sequence and still play it live.

Another reason I enjoy incorporating the two is because you are not limited to the drum beats on the Kaossilator and can select any 9 additional drum sounds to mix in with the Kaossilator beats.

polyoptics · Post by **polyoptics** » Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:18 pm

Thanks for the info guys,

I have posted the same message on the Kaoss forums, hopefully i'll get some good info there too.

I always thought you had to have a computer in the mix in order to get midi syncing going, is this true?

Sync aside, when sampling on the ESX, does it work like this:
1) you sample something via direct audio in.
2) assign the sample to one of the mini pads at the bottom.
3) this pad plays every time the ESX restarts the pattern?

If so, what happens if your sample is slightly longer than the pattern length? Does it cut it off at the end, or does it loop around to the beginning and overlap slightly when the pad is re-triggered?

I hope that made sense, please forgive my terminology and lack of knowledge on the ESX!

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:54 pm

polyoptics wrote:Thanks for the info guys,

I have posted the same message on the Kaoss forums, hopefully i'll get some good info there too.

I always thought you had to have a computer in the mix in order to get midi syncing going, is this true?

Sync aside, when sampling on the ESX, does it work like this:
1) you sample something via direct audio in.
2) assign the sample to one of the mini pads at the bottom.
3) this pad plays every time the ESX restarts the pattern?

If so, what happens if your sample is slightly longer than the pattern length? Does it cut it off at the end, or does it loop around to the beginning and overlap slightly when the pad is re-triggered?

I hope that made sense, please forgive my terminology and lack of knowledge on the ESX!

MIDI Sync doesn't need a computer - MIDI has been around before we were using computers for any real MIDI work.
any device usually transmits MIDI clock at its set BPM. You just have to set the other device to ignore all the other messages and set its clock mode to external(MIDI), so it syncs to the MIDI clock it is receiving from the 1st device.

e.g.

KOPro MIDI OUT > KP3 MIDI IN

KP3 set to external clock. KP3 set to a different channel or filter set to ignore the rest of the messages from the KOPro. That's all there is to it.

Sampling on the electribe, well I'm going off what I do on my ES1 but it is pretty similar. As I said it works like a drum machine, not a looper. When a sample is triggered it plays all the way through or until the sample is played again cutting off the last play of that sample.

So you would sample something, save it, then assign it to one of the parts (the pads from the right above the 16 pads that are along the bottom. There are 9 on the ESX), and then on the 16 pads along the bottom you can press to light which steps you want that sample to play on.

You can have longer samples and I believe certainly in the ES, hopefully in the ESX too there is a 'time slice' part where you can sample a loop and cut it up so that it is stretched along with the tempo.

So you could have a sample of an entire beat at the right tempo and assign it to one of the parts and have it play on the first beat, and if it was too long it would cut off at the end when it is retriggered for the next bar. Or you could have a beat cut up so that it plays to any tempo and assigned to a special type of part, but only one of those.
But the general idea is you would have short recordings of individual drum hits or notes from a synth or guitar, and have them play on certain beats of the rhythm.

polyoptics · Post by **polyoptics** » Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:20 pm

I see thanks A LOT for the explanation!!

I feel like I would have to try the midi sync stuff out for myself to get a feel for it, as this "out of sync kp3" issue is rampant on the KAOSS forums in dozens and dozens of threads, and I am not sure if that carries over to the kpro, since they seem to be sister machines.

From your description of the ES1, it does sound like the ESX would be able to do what I would like, but I would still have to see about the midi sync, as for some unknown reason I just don't trust that it would fix things so easily. Perhaps I am just really paranoid and ignorant on the subject though.

Many thanks again!! My ears are still open for any advice on a sampler to pair with a the Kpro, and/or a good workflow for continuous play, if that is possible.