What is the best DAW software for OASYS ?

[jg::]

Well again, each to his/her own. While acknowledging, as I did above, some of the limitations, I have never felt that the O is an "outsider" in my studio. It's my first "go-to" sound source.

Perhaps I get on better because I'm not a Logic user! ;-0

As for Combis, I'm still finding inspiration in them - usually as starting points, certainly not as a "fait-accompli". I'm still coming across different elements of Combis where programs are used in totally different ways than in Program mode, inspiring me to use them differently, too. And of course, Karma adds it's own magic. I have many productions which only exist because I used a certain Combi as a starting point.

But no. 1 is the sounds and sound quality.

jg::

[Daz]

I am sure many people enjoy those combis and get some some use for them. In the early days I found them a useful demonstration of Karma in practice.

What I am objecting to, in case it wasn't clear, is Korg's increasingly exclusive focus on prefab music and sounds rather than useful creative tools for people that make sounds and music themselves as well as using such 'aids'. I am not a traditionalist by any means ! But lets face it when given the choice between instamatic Genesis songs versus having an environment where you can create your own sounds or even program your own drum patterns I know what I would want personally. I don't expect everyone to agree, because let's face it not so many people of my persuasion were dumb enough to buy an instrument that wasn't really suited. My bad really and a wrong I blissfully look forward to having corrected.

Really my point is this. 'Korg are listening' we often hear (and sometimes see enacted), but I'd love to know who they are listening to. Who was it you heard saying 'lets put our most powerful synth engines into a archaic pseudo arranger style keyboard'. I'd like to meet that guy for sure. In his mum's basement with his Genesis records LOL.

Here are some thoughts if Korg really do listen :

1) DRUMS - almost all forms of music in the last 2 centuries include drums. Many people that play keyboards might appreciate having an environment where you can program a drum beat, because they are keyboard players and generally not drummers (hence buying a keyboard)

2) COMPUTERS - people use computers to make music. Sure they ate into the market for workstations but don't punish us with bizarre and archaic multi-timbral modes and spraying random MIDI around just because some keyboard in the eighties did that and no one can remember why (I am not talking active sensing).

3) SYNTHESIZER - do I really have to explain the benefits of them to the company who designed the MS20. Seems so, because whoever thought that MS20 would work well with Tone Adjust clearly didn't take advantage of speaking to some of the very fine designers and visionaries that work at Korg, right now, right in the same offices.

4) MUSIC - there have been a whole bunch of other genres of music than just prog rock that happened in the last forty years


The good news is that you won't have to keep listening to this idiot soon !

[Daz]

If you are using a DAW I would highly recommend checking out the Korg Legacy Monopoly and M1, personal favourites of mine. I hope we see more work from the engineers who worked on those fantastically creative and powerful instruments. I had the *privilege* of communicating with the people behind the Monopoly soft synth and their attitude towards absorbing user feedback was awesome. There wasn't the "no we can't attitude" that I encountered elsewhere, quite the opposite and when you use those products it is clear they are designed to accommodate as many ways of working as possible. There are many things in Monopoly for example that were asked for in the Oasys and simply couldn't be done supposedly.

[Akos Janca]

While I agree with many statements in the thread, my opinion is regarding what Daz says:

Korg Legacy Collection - I have bought and shortly used it, wrote about it, created a demo. I have found these transformed legendary synths really great, especially Monopoly, but finally sold the package just because OASYS sounds better for me and I don't want to involve a computer on stage anyway - as long as I can.

Computers - I think musicians mostly would use hardware instruments as *source*. We use computers because we have to - when there is no other way. (Sure, better interfaces and systems will be invented in the future so this is a temporary issue.) OASYS is exceptionally blurs/hides the difference being a computer inside but feeling - exactly or almost - like a real instrument.

Combis - It is fun to *try* them to see the possiblities and learn how to make our own settings. Genesis is fine, other bands too. To *work* with existing Combis is another story but many of them contain very useful sounds by default that can be recognized turning KARMA off. The category selector is very good and useful, however I would like to use also alphabetical selection/search and more Program and Combi slots to store sounds.

Drums - Fortunately I don't have problems creating my own drum tracks, but I like the dedicated function in M3, I would welcome it in O.

Music - Very good question. I'm not the youngest here. Daz, what genres you mean? Is there anything *really important* that is created recently? (Maybe it's not a joke at all. )

[Daz]

I'll answer some of your well made points later when I get moment. Thanks AK

I just want to add a point here. The fact that only really 4 or 5 folks here in my memory spoke about using the Oasys as if it were a synth shows that the engines were put in the wrong platform. This is not a critique of those people, more just an observation of the usage pattern of the instrument. I am taking an educated guess, but I believe the Oasys EXi not selling well was part of why it was discontinued. I would be happy to corrected on that one, but having done the maths it made quite some sense to me.

Daz.

[Davidb]

The good news is that you won't have to keep listening to this idiot soon !

No way, those are the bad news, my friend

You Know, bad news for all of us who will miss your efforts, dedication and guidelines over here.

Seriously, I really think (as you may already know) that all your points are valid and (of course!) legit, and I wish you the very best with the path you follow from now on, software as it seems, and/or within other hardware.

Just keep producing the good stuff we all know you are able to, both as a musician and a programmer or supporter for that other community you are intending to launch soon.

.... And of course dont forget us at all

Hey, we know you wont.

Warm regards, dear fellow.

[Charlie]

Wow - - this thread was hijacked!

Regarding my statement "Oasys will always feel like an outsider in your DAW": I didn't mean to say that I use Oasys less than Plug-Ins. On the contrary! It's the most used synth by far in my set-up. But once I compare its integration into Logic to eg. RMX-Stylus it becomes cristal-clear that my Oasys is NOT integrated. So "outsider" referred to its level of integration and not to its level of usage.

For me the "best" DAW for the Oasys is still NO DAW. That was my original intention when buying the Oasys: I wanted NO computer (or I'd better say: no thing feeling like a computer) when making music. It's possible with the Oasys - but with Karma Oasys needing a computer for creating customized Karma phrases the computer came back anyway. And RMX did finally kill my original intention (a dedicated drum-plugin simply sounds better and is easier to handle).

Daz has made several strong points. Perhaps the strongest one is that only very few people use the Oasys as a synthesizer. I have to admit I'm a member of the large group of "prefab-sound-users". Although I used to spend lots of time on creating my own sounds on other synths ... it's finally a question of what one wants to spend his time on: creating music or creating sounds too? For me with limited time resources creating music comes first. And for this goal Oasys sounds more than good enough!

[Daz]

Wow - - this thread was hijacked!

My fault Sometimes even the moderator is naughty

I have to admit I'm a member of the large group of "prefab-sound-users".

There is nothing wrong with that, I use presets a lot too, everyone does I should imagine, especially for sampled instruments. But not exclusively and not with a synthesizer of this power. ALL other synth manufacturers let you edit stuff directly in the mode where you actually work. LOL, now I am just repeating myself again when it no longer really matters.

Time to open my own thread, as I should have done in the first place

[Daz]

Thanks David, you're a gentleman

[jg::]

Well, I didn't actually use the word "synth" in my posts, but let me state: The O's EXi are a major reason why I want to keep using the instrument. In rough order of preference and usage: MS-20/Poly6, Mod7, AL-1, STR-1, CX-3, and I use HD-1 heaps as well. I use all sound sources, and do major synth programming as required in all of them.

jg::

[MrT-Man]

I'd agree that one of the Oasys's most significant shortcomings is the lack of computer integration -- I mean look at the plug-ins etc. that Access has for the Virus TI. But I can understand why this shortcoming exists.

This was a synth that shipped in 2005, & where all the main features, specs and requirements were likely nailed down probably a year prior to that. So Korg can be forgiven for not shipping a DAW plug-in from the outset -- it was probably a less important requirement back then, relative to today. It's less forgivable that they didn't follow-up with one in subsequent years, although I'd presume that was due to the Oasys not selling well and the thought that limited R&D resources were perhaps better directed towards the EXis instead.

Now, did the Oasys fail commercially because of some of its design shortcomings, or are the design shortcomings a result of its commercial failure? It’s hard to expect a company to get everything right in version 1 of the product -- If it had been successful, the resources would have been there to fix everything we're complaining about in version 2 or 3 of the OS.

So I think it was in part a casualty of the times.. cost of goods on a touch screen was probably $1000+ back in the day; today, Korg could have used Apple's supplier for the iPad at a fraction of the cost. If this had been a $3,500 synth from the outset instead of a $8,000 synth, they would have sold lots of them, Korg would have been swimming in cash, and by now it would have evolved into a much more refined product.

I understand all that, and -- coupled with the phenomenal sound of the instrument and the enjoyment I get out of playing it -- this makes me more forgiving of its shortcomings. But I do have a hard time understanding why Korg can’t provide someone like Daz with the basic info he needs to make a proper editor/librarian..

[Akos Janca]

The fact that only really 4 or 5 folks here in my memory spoke about using the Oasys as if it were a synth shows that the engines were put in the wrong platform.

Interesting. I'm not sure the number of active people on this forum can accurately indicate how OASYS is used in the real world - assuming there are about 3,500 instruments sold. But if this number is true where are those users from here?

We don't know what will come next from Korg. Maybe OASYS is a pioneer and next offsprings will inherit some of these synth engines separately.

I wouldn't call OASYS a "wrong platform". It's versatile, can also be used as a powerful synth (= creating own sounds) when needed - maybe no so often. I think musicians *generally* want to use an instrument that sounds good and easy to handle. From this point of view the synth engine types, the sound generating systems, etc. are not so important, they belong to the technical side that is certainly related to the sonic possibilities that's why musicians had to learn them at all. Only a smaller part (how many?) of creative users is interested in creating new sounds from scratch, most musicians are satisfied with optimizing existing great ones to the current situation they work in. Regardless of OASYS.

There are excellent and famous musicians who don't know (and likely don't want to know) how to set their gear. They certainly can explain what they want to hear or feel when they play but they have a specialist for making the technical settings.

For me the "best" DAW for the Oasys is still NO DAW. That was my original intention when buying the Oasys: I wanted NO computer (or I'd better say: no thing feeling like a computer) when making music.

I have to admit I'm a member of the large group of "prefab-sound-users". Although I used to spend lots of time on creating my own sounds on other synths ... it's finally a question of what one wants to spend his time on: creating music or creating sounds too? For me with limited time resources creating music comes first. And for this goal Oasys sounds more than good enough!

I'm with this. Sure, if I don't find an appropriate sound I modify a close one. The existing sounds are excellent creations, results of long professional work. Besides the synth engines these settings heighten the value of O. In fact simply the clever usage (know, try and remember in case) of the existing sounds is almost too much for a human being.

[Daz]

Just to bring things back on topic. My situation demonstrates what happens when you choose the wrong company/product for your creative tools.

Seriously when choosing a DAW take the time to explore what is available and how well it suits you. They are all good nowadays, but they are all quite different and one will hopefully really suit you. I started with Cubase but moved to Logic. I have also worked up entire pieces using Digital Performer with other people and also tried more recent versions of Cubase. I have to say that Logic is the one that really works for me and that lets me personally just get on with making music without thinking "hey I am working a computer here". I know others find Logic the most complicated and confusing of the available sequencers. I think in the grand scheme of things how well the sequencer works with the Oasys is not important, all sequencers support instruments that work in this old fashioned way and the Oasys presents less of a challenge than even older products from other companies.

So buy the product that suits you and take the time to find the right fit. You don't won't to keep switching between being creative and machine operative.

Good luck with the choice. Oh and working with computers these days (Macs in my experience) is way less of a problem than people like to make out (people who only use hardware or people who sell hardware). In all seriousness, hand on heart, working with my Mac with Logic and Waves has been far more stable and less disruptive than working with the Oasys in the same time period.

[Daz]

... and another thing

Here is something else to consider when choosing a sequencer. Since some people liked my camera analogy, here is another one. When you read reviews of an SLR cameras they always focus pretty much exclusively on the camera itself. That doesn't sound bad, but it is. When you buy a camera you're actually buying into an entire system of accessories. Like when you marry, you're marrying into a whole new family So whilst a Sony camera for example may look attractive when looking at just the camera itself, the picture is not rosy when it comes to the system (all the accessories, supporting software, training materials etc.) So if you buy Logic make sure all the instruments you want are available as Audio Units or if you are choosing between two other products check whether one system has better training resources or expansions.

As a Korg user this is an alien notion There is no real 'system' to speak of, nothing is really compatible with anything else (excepting raw samples), there aren't really many third party resources like sounds or training materials. Overall the name Oasys wasn't such a bad choice of name

With sequencer the picture is really very different and it is well worth considering the various 'system' pieces you may want to use. There are many great control surfaces, plugins, training materials (videos and books), soundware like Audio Loops or Rex files, all kinds of things that make up the system you buy into when you purchase a particular sequencer.

2c,

Daz.

[CfNorENa]

Overall the name Oasys wasn't such a bad choice of name