Korg Wavestation

[michaelg]

Hi,

Wanted to get your thoughts on the overall sound quality of the Wavestation. I have two Wavestations - an original and EX keyboard - and want to sell the original one, but am a little worried as on some of the patches/performances I can notice some difference in the sound and overall output of the synth. I'm particularly concerned about how on my original keyboard I only have to have the volume slider about a quarter of the way up on some patches for it to be loud enough, whereas on the EX the slider has to be all the way up to maximum in order to get the same volume out of the keyboard! Also, with some patches they just seem to sound better/clearer on my original keyboard, while on my EX there's more distortion (even though the EQ settings are the same). I would have thought that with exactly the same settings and effects and everything, my two keyboards should sound identical, yet I can notice differences. What do you guys think could be causing these differences? Do you think I need to send my EX into a repair shop for a service?

Also one more question. With the "Voices" waveform (number 91 in the PCM memory), the sound doesn't seem to be very good quality. There is a lot of "ringing" in the sound, like it's being ring modulated or something, or being put through a LFO (even though I've turned the LFO's off). This seems to be the same on my original and EX keyboards. Not sure if anyone else has noticed this? I was wondering whether the same waveform also went into the 01/W and if so, whether there is still this ringing in the sound, or whether the sound quality of the samples in the Wavestation was just not as good as in the 01/W. Anyone know?

Thanks for any help you can give.

Mike

[EvilDragon]

Also one more question. With the "Voices" waveform (number 91 in the PCM memory), the sound doesn't seem to be very good quality. There is a lot of "ringing" in the sound, like it's being ring modulated or something, or being put through a LFO (even though I've turned the LFO's off). This seems to be the same on my original and EX keyboards. Not sure if anyone else has noticed this? I was wondering whether the same waveform also went into the 01/W and if so, whether there is still this ringing in the sound, or whether the sound quality of the samples in the Wavestation was just not as good as in the 01/W. Anyone know?

That's good ol' aliasing of a sample which has lower samplerate for you.

[mocando]

I think they should sound the same. However, I have a standard wavestation and I have to play most patches to the volume slider set much lower than my wavestation, so it seems there should be some preamp features on the old WS not present (or not set by default) on the EX.
For the sound quality, sounds like some kind of interference or malfunction on the EX.

[rainy-taxi]

First, is the difference in sound you perceive real (in other words, can it be measured) or is it your own mind playing tricks?
You can test this difference pretty easy. Setup a midi file with a couple of notes on certain velocities.
Make sure both WS are set at exactly the same settings (tuning, sensitivity etc.).
Then play the sequence and record it on both machines. Place the audio files in a DAW. Align them sample accurate and then swap the phase on one of the tracks. If they null (which means no sound) then there is nothing to worry about.

As volume is concerned. It could be a problem with the board itself (problem with the amp section), maybe a difference in gain structure (the original WS has a different OS then the WS EX and the AD) or a global setting (like pressure sensitivity)


http://danphillips.com/wavestation/ws_f ... _structure

[michaelg]

Also one more question. With the "Voices" waveform (number 91 in the PCM memory), the sound doesn't seem to be very good quality. There is a lot of "ringing" in the sound, like it's being ring modulated or something, or being put through a LFO (even though I've turned the LFO's off). This seems to be the same on my original and EX keyboards. Not sure if anyone else has noticed this? I was wondering whether the same waveform also went into the 01/W and if so, whether there is still this ringing in the sound, or whether the sound quality of the samples in the Wavestation was just not as good as in the 01/W. Anyone know?

That's good ol' aliasing of a sample which has lower samplerate for you.

Good 'ol aliasing - what a joy it is!

[michaelg]

I think they should sound the same. However, I have a standard wavestation and I have to play most patches to the volume slider set much lower than my wavestation, so it seems there should be some preamp features on the old WS not present (or not set by default) on the EX.
For the sound quality, sounds like some kind of interference or malfunction on the EX.

Oh god I hope it isn't that the EX is malfunctioning. The sound distortion isn't that severe, it's just that there's this ringing in the sound, which I'm hoping is just the aliasing that EvilDragon mentioned. Plus it seems to be quite obvious sometimes where the loop points of the samples are, which gives the sound this slight LFO effect. But the Wavestation is still a great machine though

[michaelg]

First, is the difference in sound you perceive real (in other words, can it be measured) or is it your own mind playing tricks?
You can test this difference pretty easy. Setup a midi file with a couple of notes on certain velocities.
Make sure both WS are set at exactly the same settings (tuning, sensitivity etc.).
Then play the sequence and record it on both machines. Place the audio files in a DAW. Align them sample accurate and then swap the phase on one of the tracks. If they null (which means no sound) then there is nothing to worry about.

As volume is concerned. It could be a problem with the board itself (problem with the amp section), maybe a difference in gain structure (the original WS has a different OS then the WS EX and the AD) or a global setting (like pressure sensitivity)

http://danphillips.com/wavestation/ws_f ... _structure

Yeah the problem with the volume seems to only be an issue with the "Voices" waveform sample - when I have a patch that uses just that sample it's really quiet and I have to have the volume turned right up. But I can hear other patches just fine. Have no idea why it would only be a problem with that sample though. And yeah I think the problem may well be my mind playing tricks. I've been wanting an EX for ages and now that I've finally been lucky enough to get one, I think part of me is trying to convince myself that there's something wrong with it and so is exaggerating the difference in sound between the two keyboards. I'll probably keep comparing the two though until I can sell the original one!
Cheers for that link by the way, most interesting - Dan Phillips is certainly The Man when it comes to the Wavestation!

[rainy-taxi]

Is it the waveform itself or is it the patch that it is used in? (I'm confused as in, I dont know if you use Korg's definitions or generic definitions — lets say waveform, patch, performance, multi)

If it's the patch it is used in, what are the settings in the patch?
Also, have you connected the other 2 outputs (3&4)? How is the gain there?

I have an EX and the standard. I'll compare them (Is it the Voices that's on the WPC12 card?)

[michaelg]

Is it the waveform itself or is it the patch that it is used in? (I'm confused as in, I dont know if you use Korg's definitions or generic definitions — lets say waveform, patch, performance, multi)

If it's the patch it is used in, what are the settings in the patch?
Also, have you connected the other 2 outputs (3&4)? How is the gain there?

I have an EX and the standard. I'll compare them (Is it the Voices that's on the WPC12 card?)

Hi there,

Using Korg's terminlogy, it's the "Voices" waveform (the actual PCM waveform stored in the keyboard's internal memory). I've managed to get the performance sounding at about the right volume now. It's just that the actual "Voices" waveform seems to have a lot of ringing in the sound as you go above the note C one octave higher than middle C. It gets quite annoying since I do quite like the sound otherwise, but with this constant ringing in the background it doesn't sound as good as it could do. I probably should have said before that I'm using that waveform with the cutoff frequency turned all the way down to about 25. And I'm not sure if it's partly my imagination but it seems that there's a little more ringing in that sample on the EX as opposed to on the original version. Yeah if you could compare your two Wavestations and see if you notice a difference that would be great

My concern really is that obviously these keyboards are rather old now, so I'm not sure whether it's producing more resonance or something due to some circuit being worn out. I mean, besides the obvious things like keys not working/problems with accessing the menus etc, how can you tell if a digital keyboard is getting nackered? Does the sound quality of digital synths degrade over time do you know?

Cheers,
Mike

[rainy-taxi]

it shouldn't be as everything is the same with these boards. Everything is calculated mathematically. It's not an analog system where the components (and their resistance) make up for the sound. A 0 is still a 0 100 years later, a 1 still a 1.

Like someone mentioned earlier, I guess it's the aliasing. It's something I hear on some other synths too. Especially in those days, they had just a few MB of samplerom and they'd try to cram as many different sounds in there as possible because that give them better marketing/unique sellingpoints. Instead of going for 3 hi-rez sounds they would go for 500 lo-rez (extreme comparison but I think you'll get the point).

The aliasing is usually noticable in the high frequencies. Using the resonance and cutoff can mask that aliasing. You'll hear the aliasing the less on sounds that have a more mid-range or low range quality (though I have heared my share of bad aliased low sounds too).
Nothing to worry about I think. Have to put my normal WS togheter. Not sure if I have time for that this weekend but I'll try!

Santi

[Siandona]

I own an original WS, as well as an EX and also an AD. I have noticed the exact same differences with my WS and my EX, but I haven't checked with my AD.