Where now after Kaossilator?

[DannyOcean]

I have fallen in love with the KO-1, now I want to move on and start exploring synths properly - but I need advice.

I've been playing music for twenty years (guitar, bass, producing), so very familiar with studios/recording, but the Kaossilator is more fun than anything I've played with before - and it's opened up a whole new world to me.

So where now? Kaossilator Pro? Some other keyboard-based synth? A keyboard synth attached to a Mini-KP?

I love the looping and the touchpad of the KO-1, but it's the manipulation of the sounds I like the best. I'd also like a bit more accuracy too - hard to hit the same notes twice on the KO-1.

Any advice gratefully received!

[xmlguy]

I highly recommend the DS-10+ running on the DSi or higher hardware. It's like having two kaossilators tied to a 12 part sequencer, except that you can modify/create all the synth programs yourself. There's no problem hitting exactly the right note because it has a keyboard mode on the touchscreen. I also recommend the EMX-1, which complements the Kaossilator and DS-10. Last, I'd recommend a looper/sampler of some kind, with the Kaossilator Pro being the obvious choice (keep the K-01 though for the gate patterns), but others like the SP404/SP606, MPC1000, or software like Ableton Live have their merits too. I use all of them and more. The R3 or Radias have strong virtual analog synthesis engines. I would choose the M3+EXB-Radias or Triton Extreme+Moss for multitrack recording/sampling workstations.

[DannyOcean]

Thanks for all the recommendations - all very useful. The EMX looks very interesting, but I think the K-Pro would be a step backwards, given that you have the same problems with accuracy, plus you can't use it to trigger other sound sources while also using the K-Pro synth engine (is that correct?).

Having said that, the looper on the K-Pro looks uniquely intuitive - or are the other loopers you mention as easy to use?

Also, given that I have no experience with synthesis and would like to learn, is the R3 a good place to start? Or would I be better off with getting something more simple?

Thanks!

[xmlguy]

You're welcome! The K-Pro isn't really a step backwards, just a step sideways and forward. The 4 loops and new programs are enough to justify the price. I got my K-Pro at a significant discount off of list, so that helped my decision process. The EMX is hella fun all by itself, and the level of control you have over muting the parts, live parameter changes, and step-sequencing is great for building and tearing down beats. I recommend the EMX over the R3 because of the sequencer. The R3 is more powerful and easier to learn because of the editor software, but it doesn't have a song/track sequencer. Each one of these synths brings a very different set of useful features to the table, and they all work great together with very little overlap. I view the K-Pro more as a replacement for the KP3 for my purposes. The DS-10+ is the cheapest way to learn synthesis. The portability and huge battery life of the DSi make it easy to carry anywhere for synth exploration and learning.

Re: your specific questions:
That's right, the KPro can't trigger midi and use its internal synth at the same time
The looper on the KPro is better because it supports overdub looping
None of the others do audio looping. The EMX loops midi, not audio.
Any of them are a good place to start. Buying all of them is a good place to end up.

[DaveMachin]

Quick note on the K-Pro and accuracy. I've been playing the KPro a lot lately and now I can't play the KO-1 very well at all. The ability to change the scale range on the K-Pro and the larger touchscreen and grid pattern really help.

On a given scale, the grid pattern doesn't match one-to-one to notes, but it's still a consistent reference to help you hit the same note twice. I always change the scale to 1 octave or 2 octaves when I play now and my accuracy's greatly improved.

[DannyOcean]

Cheers chaps! Thanks for your patience. I especially liked your last line xmlguy: like some sort of synth Yoda.

Staying with the K-Pro, although you can't trigger midi and the internal synth at the same time, I take it that you can do it the other way? i.e. playing other sound sources (synth, etc) into the K-Pro and adding them to a loop while also using (say) a beat or bassline from the K-Pro's own synth engine?

Also, do you have to build EVERY tune layer by layer? Can you have one loop bank playing while recording on another which is routed to the headphone only (muted for external output, like a DJ cueing up a record)? That way you could drop in pre-prepared chunks of songs once you've looped them together in your phones. Or is that just wishful thinking?

Failing that, I guess you could load a song from the SD card.
Now, I have a couple of questions about that (sorry about this!)

1. Can you only load loops before you begin to play a tune or can you do it during a performance?
2. What’s a practical load time from the SD card for an 'all' set up? Say a loop with a drum pattern, bass and a lead on the 16-beat setting?
3. What’s the load time if you’ve only loading a drum pattern, or is it more to do with the length of the loop?

And finally, can you attach a controller keyboard to the EMX to play the synth parts?

Phew! Sorry for all the questions, but it’s your own fault for encouraging me by being helpful…

[DaveMachin]

I'm not an expert in all of this, but here's what I know:

You can play other sound sources into the K-Pro and either record them into a loop bank or just play over them. That source can be the microphone or the line in - there's a switch between the two sources so you can have both hooked up and switch back and forth.

I use the KO-1 as an external input so I can still use its gate arp then I can play beats and other things over it or record the KO-1 into one of the banks. If you're good you can play both at once and get some cool stuff.

You can have any/all of the banks playing while recording into one of them. But, you can't route that to the headphones only (to preview it like a DJ) - if you play it, people will hear it.

Loading from SD card is not as useful as it could be - you can pretty much only load loops before you play - all sound stops if you load while you're playing.

Load times might reach a minute or so to load 'all'.

I'm pretty sure load times get shorter if you load less stuff. But, YMMV.

I find the SD useful to preload the 8 'shortcut keys' to the instruments I want to use - that's handy, and saves the time of remembering them and setting them each time. I generally don't use it to save/load loops though - I either create them on the fly or record them on the Korg SoS to keep them.

I don't know anything about EMX's though.

[DannyOcean]

Thanks again - more quality advice.

The load time is a bit of a disappointment. A minute is a LONG time between songs in the live evironment.

Just loading the shortcut settings from the card is a good tip though - is that quicker?

One last question - do you have to save to the SD card, or can you export straight into a sequencer (or just to a folder) on your computer via the USB? If so, can you choose the format (WAV files, etc)?

[DaveMachin]

Yes, just loading the shortcut set is a lot quicker - 5-10 seconds maybe.

You can export straight into a computer and there's KORG software to manipulate what you export, but I've never used it.