Who here is a really inspiring user of the KOpro?

[Mr36]

Moi? Trouble? I don't know what you're talking about.

[Mad Trucker]

I got this unit the week it came out, and I totally LOVE it. If you don't have a KP3 to couple it with, then the 8 bar loop limit and 9 "save all" limit can be very frustrating, but all of it's limitations factor in to give this unit a lasting place in my set up.

I put my KP3 through the effects loop in my Behringer DJX750 mixer (which many people also hate on for no reason), and I run a Roland SP404SX on channel 1, with my KOP in channel 2. I messed around with MIDI a bit, but quickly lost interest and desided to work with freedom.

I find myself dieing to get down in my studio every night just to smash together tons of sounds from the KOP. I have negelected my SP404SX and even my Logic 9, in exchange for being 100% enamoured by the KOP.

Anyone complaining is not making experiemental stuff like me. When I say experiemental though, I also mean ON BEAT. People are out here paying tons of money for a circuit bent SK-1, and having the false impression that the KOP is some techno s**t, just because of the flashy lights and it being new, therefore lacking nostalgia. I guess that's why I turned the lights off, because my pals are like "you could do your own rave." Well, shut up my pals. I'm doing my own punkrock instead.

Anyway, there is one thing I like that I admit is a flaw, and I fear I will loose with operating system upgrades: sometimes the KOP spontaneously samples a tiny blip from the sound you are playing, without being in record mode. You have to be a "happy-accident" kind of person to like any clear error, but I am and I do.

The loops I am making with these two Kaoos pads are far sicker and more cutting edge (IE: Crystal Castles, Sleigh Bells, etc.) than anything I have made on Logic in years. That is not to downlplay the software approach. I upload my software compositions to various pads on my SP404SX, and in this way I have a solid composition that can be triggered easily, and two Kaoos pads to rip it to shreds with. In this way I can replace the drums or synths from my elaborate hi-fi compositions, with spontaneous drum loops, synths, etc, from the KOP...and loop a new 16 bar pattenr with my KP3.

From this description, perhaps it's hard to grasp the scope of potential in my rig, but I do not want a laptop on stage, and my rig allows for me to either execute a song in a precise manner to match it's original recording, or pulverize any of my songs by throwing in double-speed breaks, big dubby synths, etc, while flying out whatever section I want from the original.

Yeah, sure, Ableton freaks can continue on-and-on, just like the MPC heads, about how all you need is Live, a Macbook, and an MPC (or something similar), but I guarantee that every one of them will be scratching their heads if they have to follow what I am doing now.

THE VOICES ON THIS THING ARE NOT TO BE UNDERESTIMATED. For example, the drum loop refered to as "breaks" is easy to discredit, before you jack the tempo to 187, and learn to make smaller movements on the pad. When you isten closely, you find that several of the drum loop banks possess extrordinary nuance. If your aim is to recreate the same exact performance twice, then by all means there is nothing to see here (for that I would again refer to my SP404SX), but if you are like me and always seeking something fresh to go with a remix your normal approach...

In short, the KOP exists on it's own plane. It has no competitors. I have never used a regular Kaossilator...a lot of people here are saying it kills this. Can you set the key, scale, and arpeggiator on the Kaossilator? If not, then that claim is ridiculous, aside from the fact that the touch screen is the size of a credit card. Just cue up the horn from the KOP's acoustic bank, set the Spanish scale style and adjust the key to a low C Sharp (for example), then put your finger in one spot and wiggle it slowly without actually moving your finger...that is the sickest thing I have ever seen in any gear I have ever owned.

These suckers are moving fingers too hard. I got a finger for them though.

[xmlguy]

Yes, you can set the key and scale on the original Kaossilator. The gate arp patterns on the Kaossilator are much better to me than the Kpro and are much missed. But I don't agree with the statement that the Kaossilator "kills" the Kpro, and I think the concept is absurd. They both are useful, despite their differences. I use them both together, along with the KP3, SP404, SP606 and other gear. The DS-10 plus works well with them too. The Kpro ability to set the octave range is a standout feature from the K01. The K01 has a fixed octave range for each program, having some with large range and low precision and others with small range and high precision. The smaller size of the pad isn't much of a drawback on the K04, since the portability and AA battery operation are the tradeoffs for me. Korg made a lot of difficult compromises by recycling the KP3 hardware, but they added a lot of capability in the trade.

I wish that Korg did a ground-up redesign. However, it is what it is, and I don't expect it to change much, if at all, until the next major release years from now. It's better than no upgrade at all, and certainly better than the BS upgrade only of the flash slot of the EMX and ESX. The raw audio quality of the Kpro and KP3 is significantly better than the K01, having a much better dynamic range. The drum patterns have a lot more punch than the K01.

[Bowmoney]

i hate the argument that the arp patterns are better than the arp slider...it is better if you dont want to actually try...the arp slider has an infinite number of patterns that can be created, very easily, and i find it way more flexible and musical than the set repeating patterns of the original...if i want one-handed set patterns, i just line-in the original into the pro and voila...you got them right back!

[xmlguy]

I wasn't arguing the K01 patterns are better for everyone or in general. They are better for me, which is not subject to debate. I've extensively used both. The K01 patterns are more complex with varying velocity and gate timing that are easily repeatable and better for me to layer different programs with the same beat or with interleaving patterns I like in particular. The K01 also does triplets and off-beat rhythms for syncopation. You might prefer an infinite number of patterns, and you're entitled to your own opinion without any argument from me. I have a lot of experience with the approach to the gate arp implemented by the KPro, which is shared by the EMX and DS-10. I know the benefits and drawbacks of both. Recording the K01 on the Kpro doesn't make the Kpro gate arp any better for my purposes, as I want to use the original patterns with the new programs on the Kpro, but that isn't an option.

[SMK]

I wasn't arguing the K01 patterns are better for everyone or in general. They are better for me, which is not subject to debate. I've extensively used both. The K01 patterns are more complex with varying velocity and gate timing that are easily repeatable and better for me to layer different programs with the same beat or with interleaving patterns I like in particular. The K01 also does triplets and off-beat rhythms for syncopation. You might prefer an infinite number of patterns, and you're entitled to your own opinion without any argument from me. I have a lot of experience with the approach to the gate arp implemented by the KPro, which is shared by the EMX and DS-10. I know the benefits and drawbacks of both. Recording the K01 on the Kpro doesn't make the Kpro gate arp any better for my purposes, as I want to use the original patterns with the new programs on the Kpro, but that isn't an option.

I think the point we are trying to push here is "let's make something amazing with what you have now"

I started this thread literally cos I got sick and tired of reading one complaint after another about the KOPro instead of what cool things can be done with it. Everyone wants all of these crazy features on this damn box and the first question I ask is "what did you think you were buying in the first place???"

If you really want the all in wonder then go get yourself the heavy 61 key $2500 roland V-synth! There you go, now you have everything you could want.

The Kaossilator Pro is (as much as some are tired of this description) 4 Kaossilators in 1 box that you can separately control the mix of each! That's what you are getting. The only loss is the missing arp patterns...that's it! That's all that is missing!
So now let's talk about what you get:
A unique midi synth controller
100 more sounds on top of the original ones
A Gate Arpagiator you control
Vocators you can use
A Kaossilator with mic input and line input
Midi control
4 Sound on sound loopers that can be used with external audio so now your guitar or your sax or your bass has 4 banks of easily controllable Sound on Sound looping ( this is worth the price of admission alone).
It is designed to work with your existing KP3 (if you don't have a KP3 you want one if you own the KOPro).
And....that's it! And that's a lot for $400.

Take a look at some of the cool points that Mad Trucker made in his post here in this thread. You really need to dig deep into this gear and when you do you'll find a seriously huge Diamond.

[Scott M2]

"The Kaossilator Pro is (as much as some are tired of this description) 4 Kaossilators in 1 box that you can separately control the mix of each! That's what you are getting."

Ahem! No that's not what you're getting. It's 1 Kaossilator with 4 loopers.

4 Kaossilators in the Kaossilator Pro would have been great!
4 note polyphony with 4 timbres which you could play into the 4 "undo"able loopers.

I appreciate you trying to look at the positive but let's be real.
I like that the volume and the key/scale/range can be saved in the presets.
I think that most of the problems that people are disappointed about are
rooted in trying to make a Pro version based in the shell and probably guts of a KP3.

[xmlguy]

SMK, if you read all of my posts in this thread you'll find that I'm generally positive about the Kpro and I agree with the idea of making the best use of it to make good music. The Kpros problems are significant, aggravating, and deserve to defined and described, not glossed over or ignored. Having 4 K01's + a KP3 is significantly better in many important respects than a KPro. Yet I still did buy the Kpro because I think it was worthwhile for the price I paid, as I got it at a significant discount off of list. I would not have bought it at list price.

When I'm making music I'm not a negative person with a bad attitude towards the gear I've picked. I'm having a blast and enjoying every second, and I work around the problems I know exist in the gear.

Bowmoney commented on my opinion of the elimination of the K01 patterns on the Kpro and I responded, but I did mention a number of positive points about the Kpro as well.

[SMK]

@ xmlguy:

You've been pretty positive about the gear...I didn't catch that Bowmoney actually believed the slider gate arp system is better than the pre-created arp patterns.

I just liked Bowmans attitude towards the gear...he's making the kit work.

My concern with the Kaoss forum is that Over flow of negativity of the new gear, with little to nothing inspiring to say. I think Mad Truckers sentiments on the KOPro are spot on...he's more or less saying to get deeper into the gear. Yes there can be some improvements, but until that magic firm-ware update pops up let's see what we can do with it.

I'm not turning a blind eye to the KOPros faults, I am looking at what I have actually gotten for my money which is pretty damn amazing for a $400.

I just want to read more posts about and learn more from people who actually have gotten past all of the issues like I have with, for example, the gate arp feature. Thanks to the KP3 I can now make custom, complicated arp patterns like the ones on the KO1.

Like one of the lamest complaints I have read here is how the KP3 shell been recycled to make the KOPro...Really?!? I am ecstatic that Korg chose to do this because it makes the KOPro look and feel like it was designed to work with the KP3; which BTW it does very well.
Then we got issues with syncing...well with computers that's going to be an issue but then again if you own a copy of Ableton Live 8 and a PadKontrol then you really don't need a KOPro nor a KP3 because it's all in there; synced and ready to go. The KOPro and KP3 are built for the rest of us who really don't want to be up on stage with a lap top. The KOPro there are no syncing issues when it is synced to the KP3. You can copy a loop made on the KOPro to the KP3 and it is dead on perfect; just make sure your BMP and beat/measures are the same. When you are trying to use this gear to work with something else then you are going to get unpredictable results.

Well I'm digressing here...the point of this thread is to find users out there who have moved well beyond the negative and are willing to share their experiences and hopefully their tips on getting the most out of the KOPro.

Bowmoney and Mad Trucker seemed to have done it, now if they will shore more of what they are doing instead of telling the crabby librarians how crabby they are.

[Scott M2]

"Like one of the lamest complaints I have read here is how the KP3 shell been recycled to make the KOPro...Really?!? I am ecstatic that Korg chose to do this because it makes the KOPro look and feel like it was designed to work with the KP3; which BTW it does very well."

Sorry - Can't let this go either. The original Kaoss Pad Line was redesigned for each generation to suit the new facilities.
After slipping the Mini-KP and the Kaossilator into the same shell with reasonable success, it seems that Korg tried to apply the same strategy to the KP3 and Kaossilator Pro.

It may save them money on re-tooling and such, but sacrifices the improvements possible from adding more dedicated buttons or knobs on the right side or bottom.

ie - if you're supposedly creating these new awesome (difficult to repeat) individual arps "on the fly" do you really want the Gate Arp Time/Speed switch on the back?
Also - wouldn't you rather have a little knob for Gate Speed as well as a Time slider?

I'll bet these could have been squeezed into a redesign in a similar shell that you could sit beside your KP3.
A little more RAM to allow 4-bar looping at 80BPM like on the KP3 shouldn't have to change the shell.

[SMK]

ie - if you're supposedly creating these new awesome (difficult to repeat) individual arps "on the fly" do you really want the Gate Arp Time/Speed switch on the back?
Also - wouldn't you rather have a little knob for Gate Speed as well as a Time slider?

Dude you skated right past the answer to your question when you read my post:

"Thanks to the KP3 I can now make custom, complicated arp patterns like the ones on the KO1"

Switches on the back, gonna stop me? Hell no, I don't care about no frakk'n switches...I got a KP3 and a midi cable, I'm all set


Read my post called "Beyond the Slider" for more help to your question:
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=51757

[Scott M2]

You are using an expensive workaround.

[Scott M2]

But a clever workaround.

[SMK]

and see to me, it is not an expensive work-around, it's just the way they were meant to work together. If you manage the controls of when you use the arp then it works fine. when you turn on arp on the Pro then automaticly the KP3 becomes the controller for the arp set up. You save your settings as pad motions for the 8 banks on the KP3 (I rarely use saved pad motions for effects) then you dial off your effects depth and you're on the go. In short this works for me. You could save this type of setting as a typical midi external control but you lose the repeatable pad motion capability which what is kind of critical here.

But for the most part there really is no way of doing this with out the other touch pad. yeah another knob but really do you want have to "slide" up and down a setting. The reason I came up with my set up was because i didn't like "sliding" up from one slow gated beat to a fast one. It's unnatural sounding. With the touch pad you hit one area then another area, no sliding your finger around. Simple! So to me there is no way korg could have made this work on the KOPro alone.

I guess Korg do this:

[shift] [rec] for pad motion recording of the synth sound (motion sequences would be saved with program)

then

[shift] [gate arp] to make the x y pad focus on controlling the gate arp functions on while a synth is playing based on pad motion recording and also while in [shift] [gate arp] you can save those gate arp pad motions in in the 8 banks. Then when you save all you save the new arp settings. if you wished to call up your custom arps on a synth do [shift] [gate arp] use the program dial or banks to load the arp. [shift] out then play like normal trying out your new arp on all the drums and synths and the slider ends up speeding up or slowing down your original arp creation. or flip the switch in the back to change the blend. Hell with this idea korg would be able to bring back the old arps, it's just internal midi programing that can come with the new firmware.

But someone will complain about the whole process, I just know it. And that's more or less why designers will not fix the issue cos of the grief all of these 'crabby librarians" will give korg; "why couldn't you do it this way? whaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!"

Sort of confusing but I would dig it. Though, for those here who are just having a terrible time with getting a simple loop timed right they would complain about how it takes 2 steps just to crate your simple arp setting unlike just selecting one out of a menu like in the KO1. oh well.