KOP & KP3 - issues (not complaints)

Mad Trucker · Post by **Mad Trucker** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:04 pm

So, I am a MIDI dummy. I have tried MIDI several times through the years, but never stuck with it. Sometimes I get it and sometimes I don't, but it seldom helps me.

Now, I need MIDI to come to my rescue. My initail hope was that I could connect KOP to KP3, to slave the KOP to the KP3's "auto BPM." The reason for this is that I use an SP404SX to bring my sequences from Logic9 onto the SD card, and to know they are guaranteed to sync up as long as I trigger them at the same time. Now, my KP3 can pick up the BPM of those loops pretty well with the auto BPM, to keep my effect delays and stuff in beat. Now, I want my KOP to join the party without the need to tap out each tempo of each song. Well, after studying the MIDI implementation chart it appears that this wish will flat out not happen.

Moving on: Now I encountered another issue, which I am struggling to develop a workaround for. I will have four pads looping on the KOP from it's internal sounds, and sounding GREAT, and now I want to sample these four pads onto one pad on the KP3. No problem so far. I just adjust the tempos to match, and now I turned off the pads on the KOP without my audience noticing that a new unit is making the same loop. So, lets say I jam for a good 3 minutes with the loop rocking on the KP3, and now I want to go back to the original loops on the KOP. WTF? They are suprisingly no longer in sync with the KP3, after having had a moment of resting muted for a bit, these two loops based on the same music will be off.

This second issue here, about syncopation, is no big deal on stage, because most songs will go on long enough for this to be revealed, but in the studio I might vamp something for 5-10 minutes before recording. It is a pain that I have to devise some kind of technique to worm my way back to the original loops on the KOP, instead of just dropping them on top of their new copy on the KP3. At a punk rock type show, the broken beat sound would work fine, but if I get a house party gig and I keep throwing the beat off...I might not get invited back.

Will MIDI fix my second problem, even though it doesn't transmit the auto BPM function?

Mad Trucker · Post by **Mad Trucker** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:08 pm

I meant "most songs will NOT go on long enough" to get out of sync on stage, but in the studio I can't practice my jam before recording it, because my loops degenerate in syncopation over time.

Mr36 · Post by **Mr36** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:49 pm

I'm not sure that the MIDI sync capabilities of these devices is actually good enough to do this. I have read that they do not send/receive the start/stop messages that other devices send to keep things in time, so they will eventually drift apart.
However, I am far from a MIDI expert. Hopefully someone else can shed brighter light on this for you.

On a related note, I have noticed and meant to bring it up on here for a very long while now that there is a noticeable latency from pressing the banks on when they are all muted to them actually playing back. To say the KPro is aimed primarily at DJ's, I would have thought they would have made the playback as instant as it is on CDJ units. Has anyone else noticed this?

darthballs · Post by **darthballs** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:32 pm

Mr36 wrote: On a related note, I have noticed and meant to bring it up on here for a very long while now that there is a noticeable latency from pressing the banks on when they are all muted to them actually playing back. To say the KPro is aimed primarily at DJ's, I would have thought they would have made the playback as instant as it is on CDJ units. Has anyone else noticed this?

hahaha this issue annoys the hell out of me.. pretty much once you mute all 4 banks, you will never be able to get it to resync because of that delay. since I have a KP3 also (giving me plenty of loop banks), I found the best workaround is to sample a blank loop on the KOP on bank 4, and then just leave that on the entire time.

that way, since that silent loop is constantly playing, the KOP will not "restart" the loops. you lose a loop bank, but it's better than never being able to mute the KOP entirely. :/

Mr36 · Post by **Mr36** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:25 am

I've also been having to do this for certain sections of tracks. It's far from ideal. If you have luck on your side and you just catch the bank button(s) at the right moment just before the drop, they can be back in sync. But, again, it's far from ideal. Verging on ridiculous for a live performance/DJ tool.
I don't think, taking various people's problems/complaints, that it was really designed to work with other gear at all (apart from the KP3). It seems Korg just expected anyone has one will use it as the centre of their set-up.

Scott M2 · Post by **Scott M2** » Sun Jul 11, 2010 1:49 am

This may get you closer to getting started in sync:

It's a little tricky - but the initial KOPro loop is actually launched by the button release - so you have to press it a little ahead of the beat (more than a little will start Record) then release the button on the beat.

This also assumes your loops start sharply on the beat.