Will there ever be an OASYS in the future again?

[Pendulum]

This is why, even though I own and like NI Komplete, I fundamentally disagree with Daz, for example, for having sold his OASYS in favour of NI Komplete

Someone contacted me to ask if that really was the case, and the answer is no. I didn't sell my Oasys in favour of Komplete. I moved away from Korg and their products because I wanted to work with techniques that are better suited to me and companies who are more aligned with what I value. It isn't just a swap from the Oasys to Komplete.

I understand where Korg have gone and are seemingly going to, and why they have chosen the path they have. I don't like it personally in a number of ways that are important to me. But who cares whether I like it, frankly ?

Personally I am enjoying being more exclusively focused on making music and not the companies and people involved with making the equipment. They have their creative endeavours and I have mine. When those coincide, that is great, when they don't coincide there is no point in trying to force things.

It's art not a contest.

Darren.

[Savante]

The idea that we've "stepped away from innovation" is silly, and bears no further comment.

Kevin Nolan's points are well-reasoned, iintelligent, and based on evidence which he cites. If he's wrong, it's because Korg has failed in its communications with its most devoted and loyal customer base. Simply to call his speculations "silly" without intelligently countering his points, with evidence (as he has done), is what is really silly.

The fact that you "don't really see much to explain" and feel that intelligent criticism "bears no further comment" is exactly why such critical speculations occur in the first place.

I would suggest a more open and forthcoming disposition in which the customer is seen as a friend rather than an opponent.

Most suggestions here regarding business matters, including sales, budgets, etc. are simply inaccurate...

They may well be inaccurate as you state, but simply to call others wrong without any explanation about how they are wrong comes off as arrogant and condescending, which is how I would describe the tone of all your posts in this thread.

My impression is that perhaps you've been an "insider" so long that you've forgotten what it's like on the outside, and have an arrogant and condescending attitude to us "outsiders" -- who happen to be your customers.

And, naturally, business concerns generally mean that those internal operations (and future directions) remain confidential - so those that do know about them can't discuss them outside the company.

I'm sure everyone who has participated in this discussion is well aware of the confidentiality requirements of a company like Korg. It's just a matter of how you go about maintaining that confidentiality without insulting and alienating your best customers. It can be done -- I've seen it done -- but I don't see you even trying.

Kevin Nolan's concern about the future of the OASYS, and of Korg's commitment to the development of high-end, innovative hardware synthesizers is very legitimate. The market is changing and how Korg responds to those changes is of interest to many of us. In light of the precipitious (at least so it appeared from the outside) dropping of the OASYS, his concerns are well-placed and deserve a serious and respectful response. I'm sorry he backed away from his well-stated criticism, which I believe was simply his effort to avoid offending you (not easy to do -- you seem to take offense very easily).

BTW, I am a 25-year Korg customer and currently have some twenty pieces of Korg equipment active in my studio -- mostly expensive synthesizers (lots of them!). I would hope to be treated as a friend by Korg, because that's what I am, and not an enemy for being put off by your cryptic non-responses and condescension.

[danatkorg]

The idea that we've "stepped away from innovation" is silly, and bears no further comment.

Kevin Nolan's points are well-reasoned, iintelligent, and based on evidence which he cites.

Well - he has said that he didn't believe most of what he wrote, and posted that stuff just to provoke a response.

I asked if people wanted an honest answer; several people responded that they wanted one, at least one person writing that they wanted it even if it hurt some feelings. So, I responded honestly and politely. I've always told it like it is here, to the extent that it is possible for me to do so. In general, I hope that most here would prefer that approach, but I understand that some may feel otherwise. So, I'll leave you all to it - have a good weekend.

- Dan

[Synergy]

John 10:12

[Kevin Nolan]

Hi -

Pendulum (Daz) – great to hear from you! Sorry if I misquoted you – I thought you sold your OASYS in favour of NI Komplete. Sorry for getting that wrong. Delighted to hear music is going so well.

As an aside to all – I just bought “The Imagine Project” by Herbie Hancock – where he uses NI Komplete, SV-1, Spectrasonics Omnisphere and Trillian. So Daz, your instincts and choices are in very good company! Herbie was an OASYS user/sponsor but alas apparently no OASYS on this album . It’s stunning by the way – I wholeheartedly recommend it.

To Dan – I was attempting to push the buttons of someone in Korg (not particularly you !!) with my first post – to try to trigger a valid and informative reaction – again apologies for the tone used - but I know you appreciate the general sincerity of my (at this stage tired) arguments. I do in general believe these arguments that I made and have a deep seated ‘moral’ stance on quality in instruments (again apologies for playing devil’s advocate across posts!). In fairness you have more than acknowledged the good intentions of our posts (except my first post).

I will add Dan (surprise surprise say you?) that I’ve been around the block a few times, have had quite a lot of insight into Yamaha though Yamah Ireland and even Sun Microsystems where I worked for three years in a rapid turnaround product group. So the dynamics of technology companies are not alien to me. And, having followed synthesizer development and having read about many of the synth companies through history in detail, I do feel my perspective on the business end of it is not completely baseless. I would also add that if OASYS was not cancelled for financial reasons, that actually adds to my concern (and confusion) about Korg’s intentions for cancelling it. I realise Korg is a complex company these day catering for many markets – and that is possibly what is at the centre of the issue for us – we as synthesists see less and less output from Korg in that regard.

Actually, almost contradictory to the point raised here, I’ve argued in the past that it takes extraordinary effort for a company like Korg to release even one new synthesizer – all of the design and expertise require is enormous and deep - from the DSP design to the electronics design, operating systems, and then issues of musicality, ergonomics, style, vogue and individuality and so on...and then having to virtually reinvent the wheel on each new instrument. It’s incredible that a company the size of Korg releases as much as it does. But, Dan, we’re coming from position where there were SO many possibilities for OASYS’s future that did not materialise, so many obvious innovative derivatives from OASYS that have not materialised to date – and – above all – nothing to rival OASYS in 5 long years. Compared to Korg’s output from the M1 all the way up to OASYS in 2005, that’s a long, long time and hence why I and others have become confused or curious about what’s happening at Korg and whether another serious workstation (which we see as valid) will be a reality from Korg. In a nutshell – what’s coming after OASYS that’s an improvement- we’re concerned there’s nothing on the horizon.

I’ll also point out that there’s a valid precedent in this. This is exactly what happened with Yamaha after the EX5 around 1998. They completely jettisoned all synthesizer development without so much as a whiff of an announcement. I watched NAMM year in and year out for about 5 or 6 years, and only perhaps in 2006/2007 did I eventually accept that my instincts were indeed correct – Yamaha, with a legacy of: CS80, GS1, DX1/7, SY77/SY99, VL1, EX5/AN1x and all their siblings – had stopped synthesizer development completely. By now, they have lost ALL that expertise – they have all retired. It is no longer possible for Yamaha to ever reinvent their place in synthesizer history –the people involved are gone! What a disaster. So I for one have of late wondered if Korg is going the same way.

I would also suggest that even if we are completely wrong, our comments here should be important to Korg – we’re valid users who are now getting the perspective on your company wrong - but for genuine reasons and no malice involved – and expressing them in public! So this is a two way partnership – Korg (nor any company) can decide to ignore their customer base.

As I said above, there is a historical and hugely justifiable respect for you Dan, for Jerry and for Stephen. We are all first and foremost musicians and music technology lovers – we’re all on the same side and in this together. Let’s not lose sight of that. Without sounding mushy (or contradictory), even though Dan is ‘one of us’ and a senior Korg employee, I would point out to all on this thread that it’s great that Dan is prepared to roll up his sleeves on this forum and muck in as best you can without compromising confidentiality. There’s no doubt that Dan you have an unrelenting passion and love for Korg and its awesome legacy. I meant it in previous posts when I say I do feel more optimistic since you replied – clearly you feel there’s a huge amount to defend, even if you can’t reveal company confidential details; but you definitely give the impression that Korg is doing quite well thank you very much and that innovation is still central to its future, even if we do not see that right now.

I’ve said far too much on this thread. I will hope to leave it at that.

Cheers to all!

Kevin.

[jerrythek]

All too often, users and readers want explanations for the reasons why a company makes the decisions it does. And we simply can't get into the type of literal and candid dialog that you want. You will say, "no, you choose not to", but no large, international corporation will do that.

Dan and I speak often, and just today I told him how deflating it was for me to read Kevin's initial appraisal of our recent times. Is all the time I spend at work, and helping my team, my peers, my customers, my friends all for naught? Am I really adrift, never to recover?


But the central issue here, as I see it, is not really about innovation, or a lack of direction, or a loss of ideas. it is that during this time we have not made the type of high-end, technological products that Kevin wants. And some others want. But we have diversified into many other areas, and have served many other users who have different wants and needs for their personal expression than Kevin (and others) want.

I would say to you, don't judge that if a product does not serve your needs it has no good purpose. Or that it isn't exactly what some other person may want and need.

Markets change, economies thrive and stutter, and cultures change. And any good company needs to react and set their course through those times and changing wants/needs.

So if we are to be blamed for something, how about that we did not keep "all the plates spinning" at the same time that you would like. But no one has said that the future is already written by your observations. if there is one thing true about Korg it is that we are not a predictable company, and you can't guess everything that we will do.

No innovations? The Wavedrum could be mentioned as one recent example.

We had a music app ready for the iPad the day it was announced. Not the expected action of one of the "out of touch" Big Three, wouldn't you say?

The M50 may not be the product that you need, but it is the top selling WS in its price range, so it must be serving the wants of needs of a group of people.

I could go on, but it feels like boasting or defensiveness to me, and that's not my intention or point.

Let me assure you that even though I may be busy with increased tasks and responsibilities at my job I still pay attention to all of you and these forums. I truly value your input and dialog, and take it VERY seriously. And that Korg intends to be around for a very long time, and intends to keep making a wide range of products. So if a few models or categories are not your cup of tea, just be patient. Plates keep spinning, and new plates are constantly being added as time, resources, and conditions allow.

BTW - that is not some veiled hint of specific things to come, it just seemed a pithy way to close out.



Good night all!

Regards,

Jerry

[jerrythek]

BTW Kevin... Herbie may not have listed the OASYS in an interview you read, but we helped supply him units at some far-off locations for the sessions... and visiting with him on the eve of the tour it is his main keyboard beside the Fazioli piano, and Greg Phillinganes is using one as well, along with an M3, Triton and often a Trinity. So he is still very involved and invested in the OASYS as a core part of his rig...



regards,

Jerry

[Dany]

As an aside to all – I just bought “The Imagine Project” by Herbie Hancock – where he uses NI Komplete, SV-1, Spectrasonics Omnisphere and Trillian. So Daz, your instincts and choices are in very good company! Herbie was an OASYS user/sponsor but alas apparently no OASYS on this album . It’s stunning by the way – I wholeheartedly recommend it.

Wrong Kevin!
Herbie has used the OASYS 88 on his new "The Imagine Project", as you can convince yourself by watching the following clips, where you can see that Herbie IS actually playing the OASYS-88 in the studio, while recording "The Imagine Project":

http://www.herbiehancock.com/imagine/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxZtxzI8V0w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT9k9qGSy4k

BTW: I use all NI, Spectrasonics, Arturia, Ivory, SonyOxford,etc., etc. Software on an OpenLabs Product. But I would never sell even one of my two OASYS-88 (I have one for the stage and one in the studio). I am quite too tired to explain why...The OASYS is a very personal, expressive and musical Instrument, powerful enough to cut through on the stage. No loading times, very stabil, etc.etc... Try the same with Kontakt, etc. (on an OpenLabs) and you will realize the difference between a great and outstanding PRODUCTION TOOL like NI Komplete and a real PLAYABLE Instrument like the OASYS. But even in the studio, you don't want to miss the OASYS. It's sounds are THE secret weapon during the production process and the perfect completion to software. And I am even favoring and prefering the OASYS-Ex2-Piano in most situations to the great Ivory Pianos...Never underestimate the OASYS!

Good night and good luck

[Pendulum]

I am not one of the "others" that Jerry is referring to. I am not waiting for more "high end products" or whatever that broad brush was supposed to be painting over. I started with the MS2000 and am not looking for "high end" but "high functionality and playability". It's not about how much it costs, is it ? It is still an art, right ? You're manufacturing and selling but we're making music. That divide has grown a great deal in the last ten years. Very sad to watch that indeed.

This "we're listening, but you're wrong" customer approach is a good part of why I am no longer involved here. I offered some good faith advice to Korg before leaving, I am guessing it wasn't taken on board or with the merit it was worth. I am not Greg or Herbie or Jordan I guess

Tootles,

D.

[Pendulum]

Pendulum (Daz) – great to hear from you! Sorry if I misquoted you – I thought you sold your OASYS in favour of NI Komplete. Sorry for getting that wrong.

No problem at all good sir. I am just keen to let people know that selling my Oasys and leaving the forum wasn't just because I decided to use another product I had been running this forum for a good many years through many trials and tribulations. I take great pride in that, but things reached a point where I didn't feel I could continue with that. It was a big deal for me.

[jerrythek]

Hi Pendulum/Darren:

Nice to see you pop up.

My response was pretty directly addressed to Kevin's post, and his points. At least I thought I phrased it that way.

You and I have often discussed functionality, integration, and product design "wholeness", if you will, and I don't disagree that there are plenty of cools things we could be doing to further ourselves in those areas, regardless of price. So I will not hide from those ideals, or try to point away from them. But that wasn't really the discussion that Kevin seemed to be bringing up, and I was responding to.

Cheers!

Jerry

[Ultimate Dj]

Hey Pandulum/Daz,
Great to see you on here...we've missed you like hella lot!
hope all is going well, as it seems it is, and that you'll keep us updated on how things are happenin'!

Cheers mate!!!



Aelfo

[medusaland]

Hi OASYANS,

I do not know what you've got...
for me the OASYS is still the most flexible workstation on the planet. I have a lots of synths but no one sounds like the fantastic O. Thats simply fact!
all the mix of the synthesis models are unique! every time I switch it on I get ideas for new sounds...

great compliment and praise to KORG ...
thanks for all the fantastic contribution to the development of the OASYS crew...

Best regards,

Kurt

KARO sound development

[Pendulum]

Hi Jerry,

I know we had some conversations relating to "unpredictable" oddities of Korg like building an uber-synth into a workstation environment that veiled the capabilities of your finest work to date. However I wasn't referring to those conversations in any way in my remarks. I was referring to Korg's countering of Kevin's comments and more generally how Korg staff use an independent forum to go toe-to-toe with their customers. Neither of those things in my mind is a good idea. I am repeating myself admittedly and I am no longer involved here, so it really is a genuine 2 cents worth.

As a former customer it didn't please me that Korg were so keen to set their users right in public but they seemed less inclined to take customer feedback and criticism and improve their products and performance based on that. That is not how I expected to feel ten years down the line. Unpredictable

D.

[Davidb]

Hi Jerry,

I know we had some conversations relating to "unpredictable" oddities of Korg like building an uber-synth into a workstation environment that veiled the capabilities of your finest work to date. However I wasn't referring to those conversations in any way in my remarks. I was referring to Korg's countering of Kevin's comments and more generally how Korg staff use an independent forum to go toe-to-toe with their customers. Neither of those things in my mind is a good idea. I am repeating myself admittedly and I am no longer involved here, so it really is a genuine 2 cents worth.

As a former customer it didn't please me that Korg were so keen to set their users right in public but they seemed less inclined to take customer feedback and criticism and improve their products and performance based on that. That is not how I expected to feel ten years down the line. Unpredictable

D.

Daz; Let me tell you that Its extremely nice to know form you, my friend

And, of course, thanx so much for taking time to share your point of view on this subject once more, dude....You dont ever have the lightest idea how much some of us have been missing you and your (again) fair, legit, and valid thoughts and reflections.

Take care dear friend, will you?
David.