RADIAS Presales Qs: Drums, Step Seq, OUTS...

[Jive Talking Robot]

Been on the hunt to pair a nice VA to my Motif workstation... I cannot believe I let the Radias fly under my radar. It is a gem of a synth and the price is spot on. I just have a few basic presales questions after reading the manual and before I place my order.

1) I know it has drum kits... are all of these kits PCM samples, or do some use the RADIAS Virtual Analog engine to create a pure sample-free VA kit? If the RADIAS is only using PCM samples, are there VA kits available?

2) I see it has four analog outs. I assume I can treat them as x2 Stereo outs, correct? I.e. rout one synth timbre through the main stereo outs and another synth timbre through the individual outs? Any limitations by doing this... i.e. Do I lose the master effects bus via the individual outs? Do I lose the insert effects?

3) I know it is a four part multitimbral synth... I assume this includes the drum kits as well? I.e. I could have x3 synth parts and one drum part?

4) Just want to double check that the R version only takes up 4 U in a rack.

5) CAn you use the step sequencer to sequence another synth?

Thanks a ton for your help!!!

JTR

[X-Trade]

Been on the hunt to pair a nice VA to my Motif workstation... I cannot believe I let the Radias fly under my radar. It is a gem of a synth and the price is spot on. I just have a few basic presales questions after reading the manual and before I place my order.

1) I know it has drum kits... are all of these kits PCM samples, or do some use the RADIAS Virtual Analog engine to create a pure sample-free VA kit? If the RADIAS is only using PCM samples, are there VA kits available?

The actual drum kits are 16-part and they can use most of the synth engine - both LFOs, both EGs, both filters, both oscillators, drive/waveshaper. Drum PCM samples are just one of many options available for oscillator 1, so you can use samples, blend them with waveforms or ring modulation from osc2, or use completely 'analog' waveforms.
You can only have one drum timbre loaded in a program. But you can also use the drum PCM samples in any program - not just in drum mode. So there are ways to use key tracking to make a fake PCM kit, and the drum samples can be used for attack sounds for linear synthesis and excitors for physical modelling using high resonance bandpass or comb filters.

2) I see it has four analog outs. I assume I can treat them as x2 Stereo outs, correct? I.e. rout one synth timbre through the main stereo outs and another synth timbre through the individual outs? Any limitations by doing this... i.e. Do I lose the master effects bus via the individual outs? Do I lose the insert effects?

You do loose the master effects - otherwise there would physically have to be two master effects. You can't seperate out different streams from a single effect process after it has gone in. It is like trying to get the flour or egg back out of a cake.
However, insert effects are fully maintained because they are individual to each timbre. Effectively each timbre 'owns' two IFX slots.

3) I know it is a four part multitimbral synth... I assume this includes the drum kits as well? I.e. I could have x3 synth parts and one drum part?

I think I've already covered this, but yes.
One unusuallity about the Radias though is that each 'program' is a setup of those four timbres. And the settings for those timbres are unique to that program. So it is more like a 'combi' in korg's workstations, but with no references to programs from a seperate 'program' mode. Each program 'owns' its four timbre sounds. although you can copy timbres from other programs, and I think you could probably set up Program A01 to accept MIDI changes (and you would need bank changes) to select up to four timbres via MIDI from the other program's timbres if you wanted. It isn't really designed to work that way though.

4) Just want to double check that the R version only takes up 4 U in a rack.

Yes, it does, but then you wouldn't be able to plug it in! Korg placed the jack connectors along the top of the unit. This does mean that it works well in the keyboard rack, and it works well as a tabletop unit too. However to use it in a rack you will need to leave 1U above it (possibly with a blanking plate) and use right angle jacks, or leave 2U and use normal jacks (again a blanking plate would hide any cables from view, if you desire)

5) CAn you use the step sequencer to sequence another synth?

You can use the two Step Sequencers (SSEQ1 & 2) to send notes over MIDI. In fact they are polyphonic too which is great for drum patterns and other interesting phrases.
They fit into the system exactly where the arpeggiator goes. So you can assign a timbre to take notes from SSEQ1, 2, or the Arp.

The Modulation Step Sequencers (MSEQ1, 2, &3) do not send MIDI as they only control the parameters of a synth program. Whilst some people get confused because they can be used to modify pitch and volume, this isn't really akin to turning actual notes on and off.

[Jive Talking Robot]

^^^Fantastic... thanks for the very complete answers. Tremendously helpful.

This is such an amazing synth, and, I think, a steal @ $700. I looked at the other VAs in its range and I really can't find anything to compare feature for feature. Honestly, there are synths that cost more that don't have such a deep feature set and knobby interface. I also think it sounds wonderful.

Perhaps it is just me being unaware, but I am surprised this synth doesn't get more buzz around the usual places (KSS or Gearslutz) - I know some are quick to knock VA, but perhaps that is missing the point with a synth like this. I hope this synth did well for Korg... I feel a little late to the party, but hey, better late than never eh? It will make a wonderful partner to my Motif!

Thanks again!

EDIT - Thanks especially for the rack tips. I was planning on plopping it up on one of those QuikLok 10U table top stands. Looks like I will have to order a 2U panel to go with it (I like things to look nice and tidy!). I was planning on running the x4 RADIAS outs in to a MR816 (which is FireWired to the Motif XF). Should make a lovely combo.

[Jive Talking Robot]

OK, the order goes in tomorrow... I should have it in my hands next week Tuesday. I have ditched the idea of a rack and instead plan to make some nice wooden end cheeks for it. I think a hardwood with a nice dark stain will look fantastic. If it turns out nice I will be sure to post the results.

A few final points of clarification...

1) Regarding the Radias x4 outs. I read and re-read the manual, but sometimes I can't wrap my head around something so basic until I have the gear in hand. Am I able to treat the outs like two independent stereo pairs (assigning whichever timbre I want to each stereo out)? Can I also treat them as x4 independent mono outs (with 4 timbres on each out)?

2) Regarding the sequencers (both the step and modulation). Is it possible to trigger them from an external sequencer? i.e. have the Motif turn on/off the RADIAS step/mod sequencer? The manual seemed to indicate this was possible, but, again, touch to know until you try.

3) Correct me if I am wrong, but is it fair to think of the RADIAS as a stand alone instrument? It really seems as if you could sketch a whole song on one box. For example: lay out a drum pattern (via the step sequencer) on one one part, step sequence a synth on another part, apply a mod sequence to a 3rd part and an arp to a 4th part? Do I have this right? I never considered this aspect of the synth before, but it seems to have some real "Groovebox" DNA to it which, coming from the Machinedrum world, I actually find appealing.

Thanks again for your assistance!

[X-Trade]

OK, the order goes in tomorrow... I should have it in my hands next week Tuesday. I have ditched the idea of a rack and instead plan to make some nice wooden end cheeks for it. I think a hardwood with a nice dark stain will look fantastic. If it turns out nice I will be sure to post the results.

I've thought about doing this too. I even thought about adding a set of mini-keys in front to make it a bit microkorg-ish. Do let us know how it goes!

A few final points of clarification...

1) Regarding the Radias x4 outs. I read and re-read the manual, but sometimes I can't wrap my head around something so basic until I have the gear in hand. Am I able to treat the outs like two independent stereo pairs (assigning whichever timbre I want to each stereo out)? Can I also treat them as x4 independent mono outs (with 4 timbres on each out)?

YES. Well, mostly.
Using them as a stereo pair would be no problem. If you look in the manual at the 'P03 TIMBRE (Timbre Common Parameters)' section, P03–2: OUT (Timbre Output) (page 78 ), you can set each program to use 'Individual Out' or the 'Internal Bus'. Then you change the (OutBal) from 'MainOut' all the way to the other end 'IndL/R' or 'IntBus', depending on the setting of the other parameter.
Or you can set it in-between and have signal coming out of both the main and the individual. Not so useful for the individual outputs, but fairly useful when using the internal bus. That 'IndOut' parameter on the right hand side controls whether the other end of the scale for the lefthand parameter is 'IntBus' or 'IndL/R'. So you can't use the Internal Bus at the same time as the Individual Outputs for the same timbre.
You can route individually to the four outputs by using pan for each timbre. So you're still treating it as a stereo pair. The one downside is that the mono insert effects (amp simulation, and a few others) do not have a pan control. So if you are using them you won't be able to separate that out to the left or right jack. A bit annoying but I often work in the way you are describing and I've not had too much of a problem with it...

2) Regarding the sequencers (both the step and modulation). Is it possible to trigger them from an external sequencer? i.e. have the Motif turn on/off the RADIAS step/mod sequencer? The manual seemed to indicate this was possible, but, again, touch to know until you try.

all of the front panel controls transmit MIDI. you should be able to record or sequence an entire performance by MIDI and send it back.
One thing to note is that, you can turn the Arp/StepSeq On/Off, and you can turn the ModSeq On/Off, but only wholly. So you can't turn on just ModSeq 2 and 3, or just turn on the arpeggiator.
But for the note step sequencers (which I referred to previously as StepSeq or SSEQ) do keep in mind that they won't play until they receive a MIDI note within their key range. They can also be programmed to transpose depending on the input.
So, as a good example, I often program the lowest C on my keyboard to start the SSEQ which plays the drums, then have the rest of the octave to work with a bass sequencer on transpose, and then the remaining four octaves I leave for the Arp or normal playing timbres.

3) Correct me if I am wrong, but is it fair to think of the RADIAS as a stand alone instrument? It really seems as if you could sketch a whole song on one box. For example: lay out a drum pattern (via the step sequencer) on one one part, step sequence a synth on another part, apply a mod sequence to a 3rd part and an arp to a 4th part? Do I have this right? I never considered this aspect of the synth before, but it seems to have some real "Groovebox" DNA to it which, coming from the Machinedrum world, I actually find appealing.

From what I just answered to the previous question, I think as much is obvious. The fact that the sequencers run from MIDI note-on suggests to me that this is a synthesizer aimed at performance. The technology is really based on Korg's Electribe grooveboxes, and they have the same synthesis technology (although the Radias has a much more complex implementation of it)
That said, it is NOT a groovebox. It lacks some basic groovebox features like realtime pattern switching - you can't do it. I'm sure you could program something to send the SYSEX messages for different patterns by MIDI, but otherwise each program is stuck with its own sequences and there isn't a set of patterns to scroll through or anything. you can mute and unmute parts/notes on the fly though and do pattern sequencing through the 16 keys which is very handy for the drums, just like on the electribes.

I think korg gave this instrument a bit of an identity crisis. It really does need to be played from a keyboard or external sequencer at least, but its own sequencing is a very nice addition. It still is really designed to 'be played' and not to 'play itself'.

Something which you might not have got (judging by your questions) is that the modulation sequencer is per-timbre. So you actually have up to three modulation sequences per timbre! That is different to the note step sequencers which as I said before occupy the same space as the arpeggiator in the system - outside of the timbres.

[Jive Talking Robot]

I've thought about doing this too. I even thought about adding a set of mini-keys in front to make it a bit microkorg-ish. Do let us know how it goes!

For sure! In fact I will post the "specs" of how I did it if the results warrant it. Never considered adding mini-keys though... but my-oh-my would that ever look nice! My father is a master woodworker and has a very nice wood shop. Perhaps the next time my family visits him I will leverage it to do something a bit more advanced. Stay tuned...

YES. Well, mostly.
Using them as a stereo pair would be no problem. If you look in the manual at the 'P03 TIMBRE (Timbre Common Parameters)' section, P03–2: OUT (Timbre Output) (page 78 ), you can set each program to use 'Individual Out' or the 'Internal Bus'. Then you change the (OutBal) from 'MainOut' all the way to the other end 'IndL/R' or 'IntBus', depending on the setting of the other parameter.
Or you can set it in-between and have signal coming out of both the main and the individual. Not so useful for the individual outputs, but fairly useful when using the internal bus. That 'IndOut' parameter on the right hand side controls whether the other end of the scale for the lefthand parameter is 'IntBus' or 'IndL/R'. So you can't use the Internal Bus at the same time as the Individual Outputs for the same timbre.
You can route individually to the four outputs by using pan for each timbre. So you're still treating it as a stereo pair. The one downside is that the mono insert effects (amp simulation, and a few others) do not have a pan control. So if you are using them you won't be able to separate that out to the left or right jack. A bit annoying but I often work in the way you are describing and I've not had too much of a problem with it...

Thanks for bringing some clarity to this! It sounds as if I will have workable options, which is all I can ask for.

all of the front panel controls transmit MIDI. you should be able to record or sequence an entire performance by MIDI and send it back.
One thing to note is that, you can turn the Arp/StepSeq On/Off, and you can turn the ModSeq On/Off, but only wholly. So you can't turn on just ModSeq 2 and 3, or just turn on the arpeggiator.
But for the note step sequencers (which I referred to previously as StepSeq or SSEQ) do keep in mind that they won't play until they receive a MIDI note within their key range. They can also be programmed to transpose depending on the input.
So, as a good example, I often program the lowest C on my keyboard to start the SSEQ which plays the drums, then have the rest of the octave to work with a bass sequencer on transpose, and then the remaining four octaves I leave for the Arp or normal playing timbres...

Brilliant stuff and that makes sense.

From what I just answered to the previous question, I think as much is obvious. The fact that the sequencers run from MIDI note-on suggests to me that this is a synthesizer aimed at performance. The technology is really based on Korg's Electribe grooveboxes, and they have the same synthesis technology (although the Radias has a much more complex implementation of it)
That said, it is NOT a groovebox. It lacks some basic groovebox features like realtime pattern switching - you can't do it. I'm sure you could program something to send the SYSEX messages for different patterns by MIDI, but otherwise each program is stuck with its own sequences and there isn't a set of patterns to scroll through or anything. you can mute and unmute parts/notes on the fly though and do pattern sequencing through the 16 keys which is very handy for the drums, just like on the electribes...

I think "performance synth" is an apt description. This facet was lost on me until I really started digging in however. I am thinking it is lost on a lot of Radias nay-sayers. I mean, for me, personally, the Radias was just another VA until I started to look behind the curtain. In addition to a nice, functional UI and some nice synthisis options, it turns out to have a feature set that I simply can't find in other VAs at or near its price range.

Something which you might not have got (judging by your questions) is that the modulation sequencer is per-timbre. So you actually have up to three modulation sequences per timbre! That is different to the note step sequencers which as I said before occupy the same space as the arpeggiator in the system - outside of the timbres.

I actually found a VERY useful youtube demo last night that, I think, was created by someone from this forum... it showed the mod step sequencer driving two oscillators - the musicality generated by a SINGLE NOTE was inspiring. I was floored this little synth could do something like that! It was helpful reading your post and then seeking out a real world example.

Feature and sound wise, the Radias just packs a hell of a punch.

Thanks again for your time in posting such helpful answers.

[cello]

Thanks for the great questions (jive) and really useful answers (X-trade)! Learned a couple of new things here

@JTR - could you post a link to that demo you found? Would like to hear it! Have had a search but don't think I've found the one you mentioned. Thanks!

[Jive Talking Robot]

I'd be happy to! My work blocks YouTube so I can't post it now, but I believe I saved the link last night; I will repost it in this thread when I get home this evening!

I hunted YouTube under "Korg Radias Sequencer" and, after some digging, I found a series of posts done in 2007. Under the description it said "demos for Korg forums" or something like that. It was a GREAT demo of what the mod seq could do, and he explained step by step how he was doing it via text over a black background (you will know it when you see it).


Edit - while I can't get to YouTube, I found the poster via the Korg Forum... it turns out he was right under my nose in the sticky threads above! His YouTube user name is also rfoshaug so you can find it that way (and I think he links to it in the sticky, but I can't confirm)... I hope that helps! And a big thanks to rfoshaug for posting such a great video.

Edit x2 - does anyone have a dust cover they use for their Radias-R they can suggest? I am one of those "neat freaks" who keeps his gear under cover when not being used during the day...

Edit x3 - looks like I answered my own question! https://www.digitaldeckcovers.com/produ ... 252dR.html Sweet!

[cello]

Thanks for the clues - found it and it is a great video; very simple but so many possibilities!

If anyone else is looking for this link, here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQCDXRs3O7A