Using both Ableton Live and the Korg Editor Simultaneously

dcunited001 · Post by **dcunited001** » Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:37 am

the MIDI over USB for korg has 2 MIDI channels, so shouldn't it be possible to control the Radias with Ableton live while editing sounds with the GUI?

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:16 am

I don't know if the driver supports multiple clients but I imagine not.

It does have two ports, but one of them is for addressing the physical ports of the Radias making it into a MIDI Interface. You should have:
Radias KBD/Knob - This is the physical controls and internal parameters of the Radias going IN to the computer
Radias MIDI In - This is the data arriving at the Radias' MIDI In port, e.g. an external sequencer or MIDI keyboard or other gear
* * *
Radias Sound - This is the sound engine of the Radias. Same as having a physical cable plugged into the MIDI In port. Send to this to edit parameters and trigger notes, etc
Radias MIDI Out - This is the physical MIDI Out port on the Radias. Use this to trigger other sound modules or synthesizers connected to the Radias' MIDI Out.

meatballfulton · Post by **meatballfulton** » Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:01 pm

It's really up to the two programs and the OS (you didn't say Win or Mac).

Try it and see. It's not like you will cause any magic smoke to appear.

dcunited001 · Post by **dcunited001** » Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:08 pm

unfortunately, i'm using windows for now and i don't even have firewire or a PCMCIA port. hopefully i can have a mac soon, but i've definately been trying and i think the problem program is Ableton. NONE of my midi controllers will work with both programs simultaneously, i'm also using a oxygen-25 to control my Radias through ableton. it's just it would be so much more convenient to me if i could use both at the same time. i would be able to manage my library of programs much easier as opposed to having to close and reopen both programs each time i want to work on something different. it's a 15 minute process at least every time i want to do this.

should i be using the real MIDI port for Ableton and then trying to use one of the MIDI-over-USB ports for the Sound editor? Is this even possible, as the Radias has a global setting to use either the MIDI or MIDI-over-USB. Does setting this to one mean nothing can be sent/recieved over the other? that seems silly

right now i have this configuration:
Korg Editer is using the first MIDI-over-USB port named 'RADIAS/RADIAS' on my computer.
Ableton is using the second MIDI-over-USB port named 'MIDIIN2(RADIAS)/MIDIOUT2(RADIAS)'

X-trade, from what you said, it looks like i have things configured correctly. but for each in and out in ableton, there are 3 settings i can turn on or off. Track, Sync and Remote. Can you elaborate on what these mean and which one's i should have set to on? right now i have track and sync set to on and remote set to off for the outgoing port in Ableton.

i'm assuming that this is what these mean:
track - sends MIDI data to play notes/change settings
sync - syncs the MIDI clock
remote - used for remote control of parameters (used for changing CC#xx values over MIDI1-5?)

i am very used to troubleshooting connection issues as i have a Cisco CCNA in networking.

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:43 pm

dcunited001 wrote:unfortunately, i'm using windows for now and i don't even have firewire or a PCMCIA port. hopefully i can have a mac soon, but i've definately been trying and i think the problem program is Ableton. NONE of my midi controllers will work with both programs simultaneously, i'm also using a oxygen-25 to control my Radias through ableton. it's just it would be so much more convenient to me if i could use both at the same time. i would be able to manage my library of programs much easier as opposed to having to close and reopen both programs each time i want to work on something different. it's a 15 minute process at least every time i want to do this.

I'm pretty sure that is a driver or Windows limitation. You can't have two pieces of software accessing the same MIDI port at the same time. You can get software that sits in-between and does MIDI routing/splitting/merging between ports and applications for you but I've never used one so can't recommend any.

should i be using the real MIDI port for Ableton and then trying to use one of the MIDI-over-USB ports for the Sound editor? Is this even possible, as the Radias has a global setting to use either the MIDI or MIDI-over-USB. Does setting this to one mean nothing can be sent/recieved over the other? that seems silly

The setting for USB or MIDI in the Radias is for choosing which one is used for synchronisation clock source. I suppose if you have another MIDI interface you could use the USB for editing and the physical MIDI port for sequencing through Ableton.
As long as the editor or Live doesn't tie up all available MIDI ports even when they are not in use.

Also USB is faster than 5-pin DIN MIDI so if you are doing multitimbral work and need it to be really tight, then you'd really need the USB in Ableton. But similarly a data dump to the editor over 5-pin DIN takes several times longer!

right now i have this configuration:
Korg Editer is using the first MIDI-over-USB port named 'RADIAS/RADIAS' on my computer.
Ableton is using the second MIDI-over-USB port named 'MIDIIN2(RADIAS)/MIDIOUT2(RADIAS)'

X-trade, from what you said, it looks like i have things configured correctly. but for each in and out in ableton, there are 3 settings i can turn on or off. Track, Sync and Remote. Can you elaborate on what these mean and which one's i should have set to on? right now i have track and sync set to on and remote set to off for the outgoing port in Ableton.

i'm assuming that this is what these mean:
track - sends MIDI data to play notes/change settings
sync - syncs the MIDI clock
remote - used for remote control of parameters (used for changing CC#xx values over MIDI1-5?)

Unfortunately I don't really use Ableton at the moment so can't help with that. I'm looking into moving over to Live at the moment actually.
I imagine that what you said sounds about right.

i am very used to troubleshooting connection issues as i have a Cisco CCNA in networking.

Nice. I aspire to study for one of those, one day

To be honest I find it easier to do all of the editing on the rack itself and then I just use the editor for backing up and sharing libraries. But that's just me.

EDIT:
after seeing your screenshot, not sure about your output assignments. As I tried to explain earlier (but the namings are different on your computer) the port to actually control and edit the Radias is the 'RADIAS' port. The 'MIDIOUT' and 'MIDIIN' ports are connected directly to the Radias' own MIDI Out and MIDI In ports. Meaning that they effectively treat your Radias as a MIDI interface for other gear. Messages passed to those outputs do not arrive at the Radias sound engine.

Think about it, technically if it were going in to the Radias then the out port would be named MIDIIN and the In port would be named MIDIOut. But that is effectively what the first two ports are for.
If you look in the manual towards the back somewhere there is a diagram which clearly explains the driver port routings in graphic form.

dcunited001 · Post by **dcunited001** » Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:40 am

thank you so much for your plethora of information x-trade

jg:: · Post by **jg::** » Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:20 am

Would this be any different on a Mac?

Typically, the DAW, whether it's Ableton, Cubase, etc, will want to "own" the audio/midi ports while it's running, and I would have thought that it would be the same on a Mac. Is that correct?

jg::

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:28 am

I think the coreMIDI framework on the mac is multi-client.
I shall endeavour to test that later. But from what I've read suggests that it should be.

dcunited001 · Post by **dcunited001** » Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:34 pm

are there alternate drivers for windows i should look into?

jg:: · Post by **jg::** » Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:04 am

No.

jg::

hklrs · Post by **hklrs** » Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:52 am

I solved a similar problem on a xp system wit this: http://nerds.de/en/loopbe1.html

Ableton occupies the midi ports, but with some creative routing and that tool it might work. Gotta check that out myself when i have some more time.

axxim · Post by **axxim** » Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:02 pm

Hi,

I'm not sure if I am understanding the problem here, but I can use Cubase and the sound editor simultaneously, having Cubase playing back notes on the Radias while I change parameters with the editor like the cutoff of the sound being played or making program changes.

JaymzDestroy · Post by **JaymzDestroy** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:31 am

I'm with Axxim on this too lol

I usually have Ableton and the R3 editor running simultaneously and it allows me to send notes to the R3 whilst tweaking parameters on the editor.

Blankman8503 · Post by **Blankman8503** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:02 am

I sequence my Radias-R via Ableton while using the editor program in windows vista. I use MIDI to sequence via ableton and usb to interface with the Sound Editor. I know this is a pretty cable heavy workaround but I've never had any problems.

vicz · Post by **vicz** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:52 am

Works fine on a Mac, I do it all the time.