Korg M3 a flop! Hope Namm'11 will show a new Trtion instead!

[tritonlover2000]

We all know that M3 has flopped. Its hardware is better than the triton (the touchscreen, etc) but its external design is so cheesy and most of all its sounds are very weak and pathetic compared to Triton. Triton had that character: aggressive, expansive, spacey that made Korg famous.

Korg for whatever reason decided to take what's not broken and broke it.

For one, M3 has better acoustic sounds than Trition, but again, for acoustics, M3 doesn't come close to the Yamaha Motif series. Korg should have just focused on what its good at: electronic sounds and orchestral: now in an attempt to compete with Yamaha, they made their acoustic sounds SLIGHTLY better and electronic sounds much crappier.

I tried to squeeze as much as I can out of the M3 in terms of electronic sounds - but failed. I miss my Triton Extreme. The overall sound quality of drum beats, Karma programming and general sonic character makes Korg the unofficially certified cheesefactory.

Don't take my opinion for it...just look at how popular the Triton was with recording artists and in comparison, how less desirable the M3 is.

My only 1 complaint about the Triton was (without the MOSS board), the resonance sounded whistly and weak...and the touchscreen obviously wasn't as good as the M3's...everything else about the Triton was amazing.

Please notice I am not spamming. I am just hoping for a new version of Triton to replace the M3. Enough with the EDS synthesis already.

[tritonlover2000]

Also guys, please don't think I don't edit sounds. I edit them extensively. No matter how hard I try, I can't get the M3 to have balls like the Triton did.

The combis in the M3 are so cheesy (eg: stuff like 'Jew Harp')...all the rock and folk combis are pathetic. Missed those cool electrospace combis on the Triton...Triton Extreme was the most inspiring synth I have ever used yet (even without Karma - just the dual poly arps).

Again, editing combis to sound like Triton is 'replacing cheese with new cheese'...the sound character/samples are still weak.

I am considering trading my M3 for the TR series lol...Korg should be wondering wtf went wrong when they designed the M3.

Sadly all the Triton Extremes have been sold out. If someone had one in new condition, I will gladly dump the M3 for it.

[Miggz McFly]

never thought i would see a troll on these boards

strong name to post relation

bias much?

[X-Trade]

Remember that 'sound quality' is subjective. Everyone is open to their own interpretations, including yours.

I currently use a Triton (well, a Karma actually) and I do like certain aspects about its sound, but in terms of 'real' instruments like acoustics and electromechanical sounds the M3 seems to beat the HI engine hands down in terms of realism and clarity. If I want synthetic sounds then I use a synthesizer - like the Radias or the Virus.

There is something decidedly lo-fi about the Triton series, which is a nice character for some things but from a technical point of view it is not very good.

But this is all my opinion on its sound character (but surely you can't argue that some of the EDS Bass, EP, and Organ sounds are very close to the sounds of the real thing on fully produced and mastered records. Whereas the HI engine never sounded like any real EP or synthesizer).


And then there are still some people who argue that the Trinity sounded better than the Triton or the M3. Each to their own I guess. I haven't tried one so can't comment.

[tritonlover2000]

never thought i would see a troll on these boards

strong name to post relation

bias much?

Its always much easier to jump on the 'troll' bandwagon than actually discussing the issue at hand.

[tritonlover2000]

Remember that 'sound quality' is subjective. Everyone is open to their own interpretations, including yours.

I currently use a Triton (well, a Karma actually) and I do like certain aspects about its sound, but in terms of 'real' instruments like acoustics and electromechanical sounds the M3 seems to beat the HI engine hands down in terms of realism and clarity. If I want synthetic sounds then I use a synthesizer - like the Radias or the Virus.

There is something decidedly lo-fi about the Triton series, which is a nice character for some things but from a technical point of view it is not very good.

But this is all my opinion on its sound character (but surely you can't argue that some of the EDS Bass, EP, and Organ sounds are very close to the sounds of the real thing on fully produced and mastered records. Whereas the HI engine never sounded like any real EP or synthesizer).


And then there are still some people who argue that the Trinity sounded better than the Triton or the M3. Each to their own I guess. I haven't tried one so can't comment.

I agree with you on the electromechanical/acoustic sounds. Like I said, Korg should have left it to Yamaha and focused on electronic stuff instead.

Its strange you mention 'lo fi' about Triton...I thought Triton Extreme sounded more Hi-fi than M3. M3 sounds muffled - like you speak with hands over your mouth. It sounds cheap and plasticky for a lot of electro sounds. Only thing I didn't like about Triton were the zippering noise I hear sometimes and the resonance whistle. The rest were superb.

In other words, Triton inspired me. M3 never did, even with all the editing.

Remember the Alesis fusion...great board with great specs on paper, but in reality it was not. Same with M3.

[Miggz McFly]

i dont even have to get technical to disagree with you.

basically it boils down to what YOU think is good, and what YOU are using the music for.

We can go all day about sounds vs sounds going back and forth from rolands, to yamahas, and to m3's and tritons, but at the end of the day -- all of them have been used by professional artists that profit a mil + each year. I mean, michael jackson's camp used the m3 in his greatest hits! Not trying to use that to disprove you, but im just saying that no one was standing around saying, "well yea, the song sounded good, but i dont like those synths, they sound too weak and pathetic to triton (a statement that i've never heard before this day) -- good thing he dances good."

c'mon bro, its subjective in a musician's final goal. I mean the greatest musicians can compose masterpieces from milk bottles and spoons if they had to. And i remember an actual artist doin that , which i read in another thread. anyway

sorry i came at you like that, but how serious do you expect us to take you. You were coming on a KORG M3 board, basically saying, M3 sucks, and triton is king -- stating a flaw in which only your ears have provided you. and then you're name is tritonlover on top of that.

[ozy]

miggz, if I may say something:

this is the second discussion you entered today.

First time I expressed an opinion on a single, minor technical detail of the M3, and you called my opinion "erection-defeating".

Now somebody says the M3 as a synth is not in the same league as the wavestation or the prophecy or the triton - which is not outlandish (acording to me, e.g., it's a pretty good and versatile DAW, but not the best-sounding Korg synth, not even the best-sounding synth currently on sale)

and you immediately call him a "troll".

May I ask you pretty please to listen and comment others' opinions with...

let's say just HALF the respect you expect YOUR own postings to receive?

It's called "golden rule", and it works in most occasions.

[cello]

Sometimes this type of exchange misses the point although miggz touches on it... from Bach to Beethoven, and Byrd to Britten, they all produced masterpieces that most musicians don't have the capacity to, all using the same instruments - those found in an orchestra. The only technical difference (and I mean technical) is that over time orchestras got bigger. The only 'keyboards' these guys had was piano, harpsichord and/or celeste.

Imagine what Mozart could do with an M3! And do you know that if Vivaldi was alive today and producing the same music today as he did when he was alive, today he would be richer than Bill Gates PLUS Steve Jobs PLUS Larry Ellison - all put together! Wow. And all from the same limited sound - an orchestra.

My point in highlighting this is that the instrument is NOT the centre of the process, the composer is. It's what the composer does with the instrument. The M3 is fantastic and is only limited by the person using it...

[McHale]

We all know that M3 has flopped.

define "WE" and define "flopped"

[ozy]

@cello
interesting consideration.

I object, though, the following:

the organs bach composed on, where huge, extraordinary feats of technology, which lasted for centuries. and were meant to last for centuries, to fill cathedrals, to inspire awe.

They still do, when they have been conserved and maintained or recovered.

They wew top-notch instruments, without compromises nor shortcuts.

The current synths are NOWHERE near that level of quality, compared with the possibilities of technology.

They are mass products.

Progress indeed gave us extraordinary tools for many people at cheap price (the Oasys or a dot.com modular synth are CHEAP, compared to a Bach-era organ),

but in absolute terms,

today's equivalent of Bach would NEVER sit in front of a mass produced instrument and say "ok, this is it. I will play this for decades. I need nothing more. It's as big a sonic universe as I'll ever need. I will think music trying to get all the sound this thing can get".

Not even wendy carlos did it. She used the moog, then sold it, then sold the synth she had replaced the moog with.

They are tools which last for 3 years, 5. We call "eternal" and "mytical" the minimoog...

I see still NO single contemporary instrument which SETS THE TONE of a form of music, like the piano did.

The synthesizer is still in its infancy, it still needs a lotmof work before it becomes "the 21st century's piano".

Not refuting you, just recommending a bit of sense of proportions.


@McAle

count me among the "we" who think the m3 is... a flop? Dunno. Something less than it could have been with moderate effort? Certainly.

I dunno if "flop" is the right word, but I can't remember another moment when

a) Korg had an expensive Admiral keyboard (3500 euros for full expansion) and people looked at it as a "lesser version" of a better Korg product

b) Korg produces a synth which cost 3500 euros, and people not only compared it to the current Yamaha equivalent product (motif),

but compared it to one yamaha series, one roland series, one clavia series, one kurzweil series...

Losing this kind of preminence, and having people sneering at you from behind their clavias and motifs, means you have somehow failed in keeping up the good work you had done before.

M1 had everybody else shut up a think

01/w prox was huge

triton studio had yamaha competition, and minor roland competition

m3 is just "one among many alternatives".

I never had TWO "main keyboards", now I have. M3, and something else which completes it (and I am speaking of its DAW and bread-and-butter functions. I didn't mention DSI or virus or anything which has opecific and limited purpose, qualities and faults of its own, and doesn't play in the same all-purtpose league as the m3).

This maybe not a "flop", but it's a serious loss of status.

[Miggz McFly]

thanks cello. exactly the point i was trying to make.


But to further expand.

What type of music do you guys create? You are complaining about the electronic sounds, but the M3 has already proven itself to be a board that can create music and songs that attract listeners and produce profit for entertainers, performers, and musicians. Its a proven piece of equipment that gets the job done.

So at the end of the day, dear sirs, the only problem it can be is personal preference.

I can respect the fact that you don't like the sounds. But exactly who the F are you to say that M3 is crap compared to anything? To make the statement on a M3 Forum, that the piece of Machinery has Flopped is downright trollish. Sorry Ozy that you can't see past your condescending douchebaggery to see that. But again, to make statements like that you will need a hell of a lot of credentials that give your statements weight in which other people will respect.

ps: ozy, too much double space bro. LULZ

[drama1]

I usually don't chime in on these type of discussions, but -- oh, what the hell. I own a triton-pro with moss board, piano exp and vintage synth exp installed. I also pruchased the m3-73 as soon as they were released. Radias expstalled. It took me a good two years for me to actually start using the m3 the way I used the Triton. I play EVERY weekend. Your ears simply have to adjust. After playing the Triton for 7, 8 years, it definately took me time to get used to the M3. Now after using the M3 live for the last couple years, I couldn't imagine going back to the Triton. I use Karma exclusively for changing programs/combis without cutoff of sound. I will never go back to a synth that cuts off sound when changing patches. For bread and butter sounds, piano, strings, organ, sorry, but the Triton sounds like a ten year olds synth compared to the M3. Remeber, the majority of sounds in the M3 are from the Oasys. As far as synth sounds, I'll go 50/50 between the M3 and Triton. If Korg releases flash ram for the M3 at Namm next year, this entire discussion will be moot. Just my humble opinion.

[cello]

@ ozy - I totally agree with your oberservations - and thank you for coming back at me! You're right in every way. To restore the organ that Bach played on in St. Boniface's Church in Arnstadt would cost £100ks and compares very well with your evolutionary point.

But my point which perhaps I didn't focus on very well is about the limited sonic possibilities with an orchestra. We do have more modern composers like Bartok who invented a new kind of pizzicato to produce a new type of sound (like us tweaking an EG), but still it was on a cello (firstly). My wife's cello was made in the 1700s and sounds exactly as it did when it was brand new.

But yet despite that limited range of an orchestra the composers over time have used it in many different and exciting ways!

Therein lies what I was trying to say. I accept that the M3 will not be around 2110 - the parts are not designed to last that long and supporting technology will be entirely different; will all probably be thought-processed by then! But what can be done now with the instrument is far beyond the limited range of the orchestra so can hardly be accused of not supporting creativity.

The M3's capability is only limited by the hands and mind that touch it!

[ozy]

@ miggz

listen, man, this is the last time I repeat this:

I didn't use - as you did - words like "s**t" or "cr@p" , much less "douchebag" [!],

neither with reference to any instrument, nor, much less, with reference to people, as you are doing instead of refuting the content of what is said.

Please be more polite.

We are discussing ideas and opinions here, not quarreling in a drunken sailor parlor.

As for the "who the f*ck" I am... well,

let's forget how much I played, with whom, ehere, and for how many years, because that woudln't make me an expert in technology, even after 38 years I program synthesizers,

let's just stick to trivial commercial issues: please check my signature for the current Korg content of my LIVE setup. That's just the current, and just the live tools.

I have owned more or less every piece produced by Korg since it started making synths, sometimes in 3 or 4 copies. Everything in the digital era, half of them in the analogue era.

On the M3, I spent 3500 euros.

You know, I feel a bit entitled to saying my opinion about the products I pay for. Do you mind?

Do you EFFING mind, Sir?

You have insulted everybody you met today on this Forum.

Will you please stop that and start discussing in moderate and sensible terms?

Yes? I'll listen to your evaluations.

No? You'll be rebuffed until your ass is blue from spanks.

@cello

sorry cello, I'd have something to say about your answer,

but it's impossibile to discuss in these terms and in this climate.

Ideas can't be correctly articulated while tiptoeing around mounds of crap left by overexcited puppies.

See you elsewhere, or here in another moment