Increasing piano volume

Sugizo · Post by **Sugizo** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:47 pm

Hi folks,

Just wanted to know your opinion on the following:

I currently have an ace piano sound on my Tr (modified extended set multisamples) - however its volume is very low and in order to normalise the sounds I play live I route the piano as follows:

Piano - IFX (EQ) - Individual 1 - External Reverb - Mixer Channel 1 (high vol)

The other option is lowering the combi volumes to that of the piano, but they get too low.

Can anyone think of another way of increasing my piano volume that allows me to route the sound normally (i.e. through L/R) so that I can use the internal MFX for reverb?

I have maximised Combi piano, program level, oscillator and oscillator amp levels.

Cheers!

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:48 pm

I think there may be a gain or trim setting in the EQ IFX, have you looked at that?

you could also possibly use the master EQ section to provide a boost.

Sugizo · Post by **Sugizo** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:22 pm

Cheers X-Trade,

My EQ trim is on full, I'll wait till I'm at my rehearsal place to max the master EQ, cauz it's really only at proper high volumes where I can tell the quality of the sound - I'm not too hopeful about the master EQ though from previous experience.

billbaker · Post by **billbaker** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:26 pm

Try using compression at the insert effects menu in program mode - turn it to about 40 (I think the default is 25 or so) to get an immediate volume boost.

The boost in insert shouldn't disappear when you go to combi mode, as would be the case if all your boost was done in the master FX - Combi master FX over-ride the program's, so you'd end up having to duplicate the master FX for the program (boost), then normalize everything else by NOT using the master FX.

BB

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:11 am

billbaker wrote:Try using compression at the insert effects menu in program mode - turn it to about 40 (I think the default is 25 or so) to get an immediate volume boost.

The boost in insert shouldn't disappear when you go to combi mode, as would be the case if all your boost was done in the master FX - Combi master FX over-ride the program's, so you'd end up having to duplicate the master FX for the program (boost), then normalize everything else by NOT using the master FX.

BB

In this case the boost would be lost in a combi if you needed to use the IFX for something else. The entire effects structure of a combi is independant of the effects structure of the program - none of it is imported. There is only one IFX, 2 MFX, and the MEQ, in total, across the whole board's processing power.

Anyway, you also lose the graphic EQ if you use the compressor, but indeed my next suggestion would have been to use the compressor or limiter to boost the level.
But perhaps a better option would be to edit your actual samples so that they are louder.

Sugizo · Post by **Sugizo** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 3:17 am

Hi Bill,

To be honest I really don't want to use compression on the piano sound because it very much reduces its natural feel, a great deal of the dynamics and sound quality go away when you use compression, and the dynamics especially of my low end keys are unreal to be coming from a sampler workstation!

As for effect slots, I don't have a problem, as I play solely the piano on the Tr and, if required, I use the KARMA (5 IFX, 2MFX) via MIDI to play other sounds, e.g. strings, simultaneously. The problem is I use other combis on the Tr for other songs, and that's where I get volume issues if everything is routed through L/R.

It's not such a big problem to tell you the truth, the routing to another mixer channel via Indv 1 does the job, I just wanted to know if I was missing something I had not considered. I now have 2 stereo exits (tr, Karma) and the individual 1 exit for the piano (i.e. 3 in total) and had an issue at a gig the other day cauz the sound tech only had 2 DI boxes. Might need to start thinking about buying myself my own DI box just in case it happens again or maybe even a small mixer!

Cheers

Sugizo · Post by **Sugizo** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 3:20 am

X Trade, the original multisample settings were not that good and I managed to get a decent sound precisely from editing it, and a great part of the trick came from reducing its trim/gain, however with it came the loss in volume, so I am a bit reluctant to do that although it might just be a case of more careful investigation!

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 3:25 am

Well, you really want to 'normalise' the sounds so that they are at the loudest they can be before peaking.

As for the compressor. You could set it to a completely 'flat' setting, and just use it as a gain section. There are number of tricks or workarounds that use that.

Sugizo · Post by **Sugizo** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 3:36 am

Thanks for the tips guys, damn I wish people weren't in bed right now so I could play around with the settings a bit more! (don't have headphones)

I shall report on my findings!

just for the record, it is 1/1/11 and 4:30 am, am I sad or what?! I think it's time to take a keyboard-vacation! XD

Nite folks

billbaker · Post by **billbaker** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:01 pm

Regarding the under equipped sound guy...

I'm one of those guys that always brings 2 more boxes of stuff than he needs to gigs. It annoys anyone who has to lug a never-opened-at-the-gig crate or briefcase in and out of a venue, but it has saved my band's collective ass more than once.

As a rule of thumb, I ONLY count on a sound tech to have a XLR cable to the snake -- every thing from where his cable ends to my fingers is mine... with a spare if I can manage.

So, yes, I have my regular (stereo) direct box, AND 2 spares (because we have another keyboard player in the band). Spare power cables, spare 1/4 cables, a bag of impedance and jack adapters, and a spare sustain pedal.

I also have a spare XLR or 2, because some sound guys aren't even THAT well prepared.

At the church I play at regularly, I've got an "anything box" that also includes guitar, bass and drum stuff as well. If you're playing with other people you should do what you can to cover their needs... in hopes that they might do the same for you.

BB

Sugizo · Post by **Sugizo** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 10:00 pm

That's the way things should always be done, although I do think the tech himself should be equally prepared, especially if he is informed beforehand about the requirements of the band. I usually carry a bag with the basics just in case as well, our guitarrist has a case with anything you can imagine and, as you say, it has saved the day for us (and other bands) more than once. I guess I should be getting hold of a couple of DIboxes of my own to add to the collection!

Sugizo · Post by **Sugizo** » Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:40 pm

Hey folks,

I can confirm the compression trick did the job...playing around with the sensitivity setting was the key, I basically set level to 100 and sensitivity to a low value. The sound changed relatively little i.e. not as drastically as when I used a higher sensitivity and a lower level.

I'm now a happy man with the simplified setup!

Cheers!

prazsboyz77 · Post by **prazsboyz77** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:36 am

Sugizo wrote:Hey folks,

I can confirm the compression trick did the job...playing around with the sensitivity setting was the key, I basically set level to 100 and sensitivity to a low value. The sound changed relatively little i.e. not as drastically as when I used a higher sensitivity and a lower level.

I'm now a happy man with the simplified setup!

Cheers!

can you give me the tutorial ???? please bro... i have the same problem....

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