Please help to make nice lead on R3

ultravvox · Post by **ultravvox** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:56 am

Don't worry, everything's OK.

I've received 2 patches, I'll check them today after my job.

tpantano · Post by **tpantano** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:06 pm

ultravvox wrote:
tpantano wrote:woops forgot the link before,
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1715217/raversfantasy.mp3

and that's unison in addition to all other thickening methods- waveshaping, saw modulation (I could've used osc1 unison too), detuned second osc, lots of LFO work to pitches and volumes, chorus, and modulation delay.
And for me it sounds bad. It is very thin and has exsessive modulation on it. For my taste that kind of sound must be fat, but straightforward and not "morphing".

Sorry if fhis wasn't clear, but that patch was intended for xmlguy, not you- it was just me trying to make a point about unison. I usually prefer more compact leads myself, but unison is great for width.

Timo · Post by **Timo** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:32 pm

ultravvox wrote:It seems all "magic" in my second patch was just high EQ boost and heavy feedback in St.Delay. Very interesting.

See, you learnt something, which is a great first step. Given time, you'll hear a certain effect and think "ah, I think I know what is causing that" and are able to narrow it down quicker and/or add that element to your own patches to enhance them.

Dissecting other people's patches is single-handedly the number one, best way to learn synthesis. Find some presets you like, then dissect them with a fine-tooth comb and find out what aspects make them special.

FAO XML, not sure what it's like on the R3 but on the Radias using the Waveshape to add a sub-oscillator eats extra poly. As does using the comb-filter I believe.

ultravvox · Post by **ultravvox** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:44 pm

xmlguy wrote:I forgot to mention that you should try the RaveSaw2 patch I sent you with the vocoder on and argeggiator latched, for a little surprise.

I've tested both patches. I've hoped that non-unison patch will sounds great, but... Maybe I do something wrong again, but it sounds quite unimpressive, nothing even close to unison. I try to hold notes, play sequence, use arpeggiator, tweak Cutoff, play in all octaves, etc... Insane amounts of sub-bass and very-very thin "lead" timbre. At certain pitch it sounds like Octaver effect for electric guitar.

Not my kind of sound, definitely.

Nevertheless the trick with vocoder is very cool. It's really funny when I strike microphone by finger and synth "spits" another note.

At very high input level moving hand around mic works like some kind of sensor, like Roland D-Beam.

ultravvox · Post by **ultravvox** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:51 pm

Timo wrote: Dissecting other people's patches is single-handedly the number one, best way to learn synthesis. Find some presets you like, then dissect them with a fine-tooth comb and find out what aspects make them special.

Where I can find custom presets for R3, except korgforums "download" section?

tpantano · Post by **tpantano** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:19 pm

xmlguy- just got around to trying your patches. I still prefer my unison saw, those lower harmonics are just too weird for me- they'd be great if you were trying to create some sort of dissonant music though. The patch is almost... organ like, it has a lower breath to it, but it's a different kind of sound.

ultravvox · Post by **ultravvox** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:34 pm

tpantano wrote:those lower harmonics are just too weird for me- they'd be great if you were trying to create some sort of dissonant music though. The patch is almost... organ like, it has a lower breath to it

Exactly my own impression of xmlguy patches.

xmlguy · Post by **xmlguy** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:44 pm

tpantano wrote:xmlguy- just got around to trying your patches. I still prefer my unison saw, those lower harmonics are just too weird for me- they'd be great if you were trying to create some sort of dissonant music though. The patch is almost... organ like, it has a lower breath to it, but it's a different kind of sound.

Did you try it with the midi sequence you sent me? My goal was to match the lead in the YouTube vid you sent. It's not a patch that's intended to be very melodic on its own, but if you listen closely to the lead in the vid, it has a similar dissonance. Play the YouTube vid at the same time as this patch, then compare the two leads. That's why I had a specific goal in mind, to match the example more closely. The beat in the Raver dream track will cover some of those lower harmonics, and the lead in the video has those lower harmonic pitches, which is why it has more bass depth than the patch you posted.

xmlguy · Post by **xmlguy** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:52 pm

ultravvox wrote:
tpantano wrote:those lower harmonics are just too weird for me- they'd be great if you were trying to create some sort of dissonant music though. The patch is almost... organ like, it has a lower breath to it
Exactly my own impression of xmlguy patches.

They aren't really "xmlguy patches". I made them to more closely match the example. It's a cover patch. It's like if I made a "Jump patch", which would be Van Halen patch that I made to cover it. Although I do make cover patches, I don't post them as my own. It's a "tribute patch" that I made.

I wouldn't want to take credit for a "Jump patch" either.

ultravvox · Post by **ultravvox** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:00 pm

Anyways thanks you and other people here, finally I've got what I want when I've created this thread. And learnt something about synthesis.

xmlguy · Post by **xmlguy** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:18 pm

ultravvox wrote:

Anyways thanks you and other people here, finally I've got what I want when I've created this thread. And learnt something about synthesis.

Great! Learning synthesis better is a better reward than any specific patch. It's like learning how to make a better garden, even if some of the vegetables don't come out great one year, you are better prepared for a future harvest. I'm more of a synth patch gardener/farmer, rather than a veggie seller and eater. When people come here looking for free fruits and veggies, I don't give them the goods they want but I'm glad to show them how to cultivate for all the free stuff they're willing to grow for themselves. That requires plowing, fertilizer, and work. Shoveling fertilizer is part of the work.

xmlguy · Post by **xmlguy** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:23 pm

Timo wrote:
ultravvox wrote:It seems all "magic" in my second patch was just high EQ boost and heavy feedback in St.Delay. Very interesting.
FAO XML, not sure what it's like on the R3 but on the Radias using the Waveshape to add a sub-oscillator eats extra poly. As does using the comb-filter I believe.

I just tested the patch. It uses a Waveshape subosc and comb filter, but it maintains full 8 polyphony on the R3. I haven't seen anything except unison and dual timbres eat up poly on the R3, as far as I recall.

tpantano · Post by **tpantano** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:04 pm

xmlguy wrote:
tpantano wrote:xmlguy- just got around to trying your patches. I still prefer my unison saw, those lower harmonics are just too weird for me- they'd be great if you were trying to create some sort of dissonant music though. The patch is almost... organ like, it has a lower breath to it, but it's a different kind of sound.
Did you try it with the midi sequence you sent me? My goal was to match the lead in the YouTube vid you sent. It's not a patch that's intended to be very melodic on its own, but if you listen closely to the lead in the vid, it has a similar dissonance. Play the YouTube vid at the same time as this patch, then compare the two leads. That's why I had a specific goal in mind, to match the example more closely. The beat in the Raver dream track will cover some of those lower harmonics, and the lead in the video has those lower harmonic pitches, which is why it has more bass depth than the patch you posted.

oh, well I wasn't aiming to match it- it was simply the first melody I could think of that goes with a layered saw sound. I was trying to make a patch as wide as possible, not just in terms of stereo but in terms of frequency- make it hit as many pitches and harmonics as possible without turning into noise.

xmlguy · Post by **xmlguy** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:51 pm

tpantano wrote:oh, well I wasn't aiming to match it- it was simply the first melody I could think of that goes with a layered saw sound. I was trying to make a patch as wide as possible, not just in terms of stereo but in terms of frequency- make it hit as many pitches and harmonics as possible without turning into noise.

Ahhh, yes, that's a different goal. Have you played with the DWGS Endless Wave? It has a note for every octave. It starts by sounding like an organ, but you can use filters to narrow the notes to the range you want, with a LPF to cut the top and a HPF to cut the bottom.