M50 Midi Through/Out Question...

[aaronpico]

If I ran the M50 2nd in line in a midi chain, would I use the "midi through" or "midi out" of the m50 to go to the next module? I want to change programs on all 3 units with board #1, but still have the M50 (#2) be the controller to play a synth module which is 3rd in line.

[CfNorENa]

If I ran the M50 2nd in line in a midi chain, would I use the "midi through" or "midi out" of the m50 to go to the next module? I want to change programs on all 3 units with board #1, but still have the M50 (#2) be the controller to play a synth module which is 3rd in line.

MIDI gurus may have to correct me, but as far as I know, you can't do what you're talking about, since for the first function, you'd want THRU, and for the second, OUT. If this isn't possible, you could look into a MIDI patchbay (or MIDI merge box).

[aaronpico]

I've been pondering it and I think midi out would work.
For example: I would change the program on Board 1 which would in turn change it on the M50, which would, in either case, midi out or through, change the program on module #3. Then the midi out from the M50 would also be the correct connection for the M50 to be the play controller.

Right?

[mrteclas]

Sure, but Midi messages come out from Midi Out, it can be done as long as you don't send Midi messages to the next key/module, or set that one to dont react to m50 midi messages

[billbaker]

Can't get there from here... because you're trying to get half a midi message - patch change - from one and NOT note on/note off, and half a midi message - note on/note off, but not patch changes from 2nd.

You might be able to do it with a couple of midi merge boxes - ANATEK made some WAAAYYY back. I don't know if they even exist any more. Plus you risk hung notes and other problems with denser data flow.

Q: Is there some reason you DON'T want patch changes to originate with the M-50?

It would seem to me that if you're talking about a live stage set-up some homework setting up a "LIVE" or "SET LIST" combi bank would go a long way to solving your problem. [Even if you are only using individual programs on the m-50, storing them as CLONED 1 program combis -- with effects copied -- gives you option of external control via midi.]

I'm ASSUMING limited use of drum tracks or KARMA/arp functions, but usually there are a couple of non-dedicated tracks in most combis. Pick a midi channel [NOT 1-2-3 ... 4-thru-16 are almost never used in factory combis] and set it to EXT (external) and make sure patch send is checked -- then midi-out to synth 1 which you should be able to set in global mode to receive patch changes but NOT note on/note/off; and midi thru to the module -- receiving it's separate patch change orders AND note on/note off on a separate channel sent from m-50.

BB

[billbaker]

CLARIFICATION -- should read:

... and midi thru FROM KEYBOARD 1 to MIDI IN OF the module ...

===========

This would allow KYBD 1 to play itself using only patch select data from m50 - data stream in KYBD 1's MIDI THRU originates at M-50 -- So even if you did change patches on KYBD 1, the MODULE should not receive patch or playing data EXCEPT from the M-50 via midi thru channel.


BB

[aaronpico]

OK, now that I think about it,.....here's my rig (boards & module):

M50, Kurzweil PC1SE, TR-Rack.

The PC1SE is a fully weighted 76 key board that I use for pianos, e.p.'s, etc. BUT I do really like some synth & organ sounds on it which I would like to play using the M50 as controller. I would also like to play the TR-Rack using the M50, and sometimes usin the Kurz.

So, I could control all program changes with the M50, but modify the settings in the M50 and Kurz as to which one would be playing the module according to the combi & select...?

[X-Trade]

Korg's workstations have some great masterkeyboard functionality in Combi mode.

If you were to use the M50 as the master for the setup, then you could run from the M50 Out to the In of the Kurz and from Thru to the In of the TR Rack. Or swap the Kurz and TR around, doesn't matter. Obviously the above makes more sense if they are both on the same keyboard stand or something.

Anyway, in Combi mode you can set up a timbre to 'EXT' or 'EXT2' status. There you set the program (patch change) number like normal, using the Prog page/tab, but you set the MIDI channel to match the channel of your external gear.
When you load your combi, the patch changes will be sent on those channels. By default it will also send MIDI notes across, which may be useful in some situations, but in others you may want to change the keyzone or MIDI filters so that it doesn't send MIDI notes, joystick, damper pedal, etc. So you're just using it for patch changes.

The difference between EXT and EXT2 is that EXT uses the Korg bank change format, so you still get the full program selection including program number (irrelevant) and bank letter, and it will typically work (including selecting the right bank) on another Korg workstation.
EXT2 mode lets you specify the exact bank number MSB and LSB, so you'll need to figure out or know these for your Kurz most probably. You still set the program number the same as any other timbre, but there will be no name or bank letter next to it, just 0-127

[billbaker]

Hmm...

$250 solution. Buy another TR rack (they'll start showing up on the market about when KRONOS does).

M-50 midi out to rack 1.
Kurz Midi out to rack 2.

No conflict, minimal programming, gig back up redundancy - either board can be master.

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[X-Trade]

Or just get a MIDI merge box to merge your Out and Thru.

If you plan on expanding your setup in the future, a MIDI patchbay might be a better option.