m3 hmmmmmmmmmm, !!!??!!

[Gargamel314]

another use of karma that was that wasn't mentioned was for playing non-keyboard instruments more realistically. This includes guitar strumming & picking, shredding on guitar solos, harp glissandos, one of my favorites is this stereo gong roll... as you hold down the key, the gong rolls louder and louder, and when you finally release the key, you get this nice full-sounding gong sound

and yeah, everything that you can do live on the M3, you can do in the sequencer (except RPPR, this can only be used in the sequencer).

[BasariStudios]

Disadvantage of KARMA: if you want KARMA to replay an exact note phrase, you cannot just define/enter the notes and their durations, but you would need to adjust the sliders and buttons so the generated phrase matches the note phrase you have in mind. Given the many possibilities (see calculation above), this is (in practice) impossible to achieve.
Remark: The optional available KARMA M3 software allows you to import phrases (MIDI notes). But be warned, I experienced that during the import the original material is slightly altered e.g. notes are quantized, some notes may get dropped, so the imported result is not always satisfying.

Take no offense, i dont mean an argument but just to correct your wrong statement.
First i find it funny someone to say DISADVANTAGE of KARMA...LOLZ...second:
If you take a look at this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Khh21CPKXY
or this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaQQ0cXLEJY
KARMA does EXACTLY what i told HER to do and i mean to the last millisecond,
so it is possible to achieve EXACTLY what you want. You are right about Import
to a certain point but not completely. If Imported and modified by the software itself
there is still a workaround it and it still can be made to sound Exactly the way you want.
I wrote about it already yesterday on the KARMA LAB Forums somewhere.
I dont know how much you know and understand KARMA and KM3 Software but
your statements are incorrect and i dont mean to start an argument or something
it is just it happened that i dug enough in it to actually find out that it can do Exactly
what we want and trust me, no matter how much i know about it i still dont probably
know 5% of it, even i am to the point where i create anything i want with it without
MIDI import...everyday i am just more amazed by what it can do.

...and with the software, I can creat my own also and/or edit existing ones and then transfer them back into the m3 keybrd & save ?

Exactly that.

...and all these cool karma features can be use in the Sequencer mode or just for LIVE playing?

Yes, they can be used in Both, Production or playing Live.

So it's like arpeggiator and an auto-accompaniment device. kind of like an arranger keyboard. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You might call it that but not necesarilly, it is a complex and complicated thing,
in general it can do both, an Arp and an Arranger with few limits and on the other
hand also few advantages over the other. Its just too Complex.

[Alone]

WOW! cool, guys,

u have convinced me. after finding out more infos on it and the infos you nice folks here provided, i guess i better start saving up again. Now Igotta get one asap.

Thanks !!!

[orpheus2006]

Take no offense, i dont mean an argument but just to correct your wrong statement.

I'm not made from sugar.
But you haven't convinced me (yet) that your statements are correct.

First i find it funny someone to say DISADVANTAGE of KARMA...LOLZ...

What I meant with "disadvantage" is when you compare KARMA on the M3! with an arranger/arpeggiator. You cannot just easily recreate a phrase you have in mind. As said, there is no disadvantage in combination with the KARMA M3 software.
And don't get me wrong: I'm a KARMA fan and it is one of the main features (if not the main feature) why I purchased the M3.

KARMA does EXACTLY what i told HER to do and i mean to the last millisecond,
so it is possible to achieve EXACTLY what you want. You are right about Import
to a certain point but not completely. If Imported and modified by the software itself
there is still a workaround it and it still can be made to sound Exactly the way you want.

That's interesting, and good to hear. Hope you are not a
In my experience the MIDI to GE import doesn't work flawlessly, e.g. when I imported a "syncopated" drum sequence it was rendered useless because notes got quantized. I can easily prove this if needed. However I admit that I haven't probably spent enough time to get around and dive into all the nitty gritty details of the KARMA M3 software. But what I know is that many users at karma-lab.com forum would be interested in video tutorials in order to master this complex software.

I wrote about it already yesterday on the KARMA LAB Forums somewhere.

Can you share the link, please.

I dont know how much you know and understand KARMA and KM3 Software but
your statements are incorrect and i dont mean to start an argument or something
it is just it happened that i dug enough in it to actually find out that it can do Exactly
what we want and trust me, no matter how much i know about it i still dont probably
know 5% of it, even i am to the point where i create anything i want with it without
MIDI import...everyday i am just more amazed by what it can do.

Great for you! But the majority will probably experience it as I described it. My statements may be incorrect, but if you cannot provide an undisputable proof (or at least an example), I tend to keep my opinion.
I'd be more than happy if you can prove that I'm wrong here.

BTW, your videos are nice but they don't necessarily qualify what you stated above. You must do harder!

[BasariStudios]

On your last comments...what do you mean i must do harder...one example:
How do you know what was exactly in my head when i created those and how
do you know that they dont sound as i intended them to do...if they dont sound
the way you want that doesnt mean the software cannot do it, if you know what
i mean, meaning, if you did them then they will sound the way you want but it
might not be the way i want. The videos above are a COMPLETE proof that
KARMA can do what we want but to you it will be a proof only when you do it
since THEN you will know whats exactly in your head...cuz this way its just a
piece of music to you and you might think i achieved it on LOTTO but when you
do it then you know it will be exactly the way you want.
And i wasnt talking about skills that me and you can achieve and some others
not, that is not the point, the point is that an Airplane can go 1500MPH but
can me and you actually controll it? Maybe not but it can still fly at that speed
for those who can fly it...i hope you understand me better.

[midinut]

Nedim:

I think what Orpheus is saying is that in your videos you cannot tell what was created with just the M3 and the onboard Karma, or what you did with the Karma M3 software. It would help back up your claim if your video "showed" the way you created the GE and "made" it do what you wanted it to do. Your video just shows you playing and we can hear what's going on.

I think we can all agree here that the Basic and XPanded M3's offer a lot of "bang for the buck" and most of us (myself included) are just scratching the surface of what this thing is capable of. Not a lot of us have the Karma M3 software (yet) and I think most of us realize that it will enable us to create out own GE's, whereas with just the M3 itself, we can manipulate and alter the GE's but cannot create them without the software. Now it seems to me logically that if I have the software, then I can create a GE that will play any arp, and any bassline, and any drum kit that I choose plus I can make my own variations as well (ie. Intro, Verse 1, Chorus, Verse 2, Bridge, Chorus, Outro). Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

[BasariStudios]

Yes you are correct but there is another thing, even having the software one is
still limited to his own knowledge and time for work. Basically me and also
Stephen himself confirmed that it takes around 8-10 hours to create one Combi
(i saw his statement in another thread). What i mean by limited is that this Soft
is not like any other where you have a Sequencer grid and you just Inject notes
where and how you like. This is based on a whole different and very complex
concept which automatically blocks a lot of people of doing anything du to their
time or knowledge...that is the downside of it but...for this software to actually
work, as i understand it IT HAS to be very complex as it is otherwise would be
worthless. I also havent met or found many people that can actually use the KM3
to a big extent, probably 3-4 people the most, even them not that deep,
excluding Stephen. The Software can do miracles we cant even imagine but it
needs time and dedication...and as i always say a lot of Cigarettess too.

[midinut]

I think you are correct about the percentage of people that buy the Karma software. I purchased the Karma Software for my original red Karma Workstation many years ago. I loaded it up, registered it and played around with it for a bit but must admit I was overwhelmed by the depth of it all. If there had been some type of tutorials (preferably videos) available I probably would have done better. I really do plan to purchase the KM3 software at some point but I keep remembering that I never buckled own and applied myself with the Karma. This translates to I didn't feel like I got my moneys worth - and it was my own fault too. I also didn't have the free time then that I now have. Will I repeat that scenario with the M3? Don't know. Here's why...

I purchased my M3 secondhand and have gotten the very basics figured out. I signed up for a month of PCA content. I made it through the first 14-15 chapters without falling asleep. I don't mean that as a slam to Scott, who does a fine job, again I was probably a bit overwhelmed by the depth of what can be done. I know a lot more now than I did before about what Karma can do. I also realize that if I ever want to create my own GE's, then the software is my only option. At this stage of the game, I am creating more music than I ever have in my life. I kind of don't want to "interrupt the flow" if you know what I mean. The videos that Rich F from Korg does are more my speed (for now anyway) and I need THAT type of training (and MORE of it) on this monster before I dig into anything deeper.

I think we all use our M3 in different and wonderful ways. As I read this forum and the other I see people who are destined to be preset junkies and will probably never even try to edit a sound. These folks seem to feel entitled to have all these "free" patches available for them and cringe at the thought of programming something themselves. The other extreme are the folks that have read (and understand) all the Wiki articles and are thinking about GEs in their sleep. I think all of us could use more training. Coming from a background as an instructor, I see lots of people unloading their M3's simply because they became overwhelmed and couldn't figure it out. I know it sounds ridiculous, but a "M3/M50 For Dummies" series of articles or videos might save a lot of people from selling their M3's and moving to other gear. First, the user must have the desire to want to know more, then they must have the information or training available from free or paid sources, then they must put in the time to learn. Some folks just don't want to pay the price I'm afraid.

I have a Yamaha Motif ES as well and believe me when I say, the learning curve on THAT is much greater than the M3. Yamaha's way of doing things can be just plain retarded sometimes. Now I have met Motif people that are engineers and programmers that have no problem with the Yamaha OS so it just goes to show... I think some of it is a left brain versus right brain issue. And that applies to the M3 as well as the Motif.

Okay, done venting... sorry for the mouthful...

[BasariStudios]

You are right and it all deppends on people, time and experience...not to show
off but as of from a while ago i dont have any problem with ANY synth at all...
even if its the first time turning it on, in 2 hours i would still be able to create
a sound on it from scratch or create and Arp or a Sequence. No matter what
machine it is, i guarantee you i will succeed in doing anything in 2 hours after
turning on and then of course...you get deeper. The point is, i am not smarter
then anyone in here, maybe i smoke more cigarettess but not smarter...but,
its simple, you learn one synth and thats it...apply it to all the rest.
If i personally hear a sound, i will replicate it as much as the machine allows
me to do so and on ANY machine i mean on ANY. I've said many times, example:
Lets say i know how to work with the M3...and all of a sudden today BOOM i
got a MOTIF XS...OMG, WTF, what am i gonna do...here is what you do:
You turn the synth on and if you need a sound you go to Voice Mode and you
look for an Oscilator...OMG there is not one...it doesnt say that...well look for
something else where it shows a number or something like this:
1365: ElectricPiano1...BOOM got it! Thats an oscilator huh? Element...now,
Filter, Amp, Pitch, some other stuff...its all the same...Cutof is Cutof anywhere...
Was that so hard? NO! You need a Sequence? Same thing, go to Sequencer,
Record is Record and Quantize is Quantize everywhere...and the rest...
All you do is just that you Apply your knowledge to another machine and you are all set.

Now there is the other part and reasons:
1. People that its their first machine and dont have time and experience yet
2. People that are not very demanding and satisfied with what it offers
3. People that owned 20 keyboards in there life but they are PLAIN lazy
e tc...but i dont believe there is a person who cant learn...no Musician is
stupid or dumb...we are the most inteligent human beings...Musicians.
But LAZY? Hell yeah we are...
And then you have the people like me, as you said...i Dream about GEs or
go on a date...while she talks something i am thinking about GEs...SAD.

[Randelph]

Midinut-
That's good to hear that the M3 is not as retarded as the XS.

I had an XS for 2 years before buying the M3. I was under the mistaken idea I needed to have all my desired sounds organized and at the ready- bad idea. I was also inexperienced in knowing what i actually needed.

Since pulling out my hair trying to manage the free samples they gave us (I'm now bald) and finding that the XS has no real provision for doing it in any kind of reasonable way, I gave up on it. I'd already tried learning and customizing different aspects of the XS, finding it very difficult in most cases, so when I put in a huge effort and used all the work around methods Bad Mister tutors every one on, I was done- was spending waaay too much time of the technology and not enough on playing and enjoying.

Right about that time i started realizing I barely knew the presets the board had, and before worrying about all the great sounds the free expansions had to offer, I needed to know what the board natively offered- and learn how to play them. I've played mostly piano through the years, so learning to distinguish between the different qualities of rhodes and wurlitizer and organ patches, for example, is a learning curve all unto itself if you're not used to playing those sounds and don't know where and how they'd fit into what you're playing. I also realized that in group playing, i didn't even necessarily need combi mode- there's plenty of Programs that cut thru the mix and sound awesome.

My first revelation with the M3: that you could change up the individual patches and re-name them as desired! What a personal empowerment compared to the XS where the presets are forever presets (though in combi mode there are offsets for some of the more common settings of the individual patches). Of course then I found out from a WIKI article not to change the order too much of the patches 'cause the combis reference them in a particular slot- but whatever, I can change them to my liking and keep them in the same slot or save a highly modified version to another free slot.

I'm with you on the tutorials- I just don't get the logic (or lack thereof): with so much technology to relate to, it seems like a no-brainer to have a Rich F kind of tutorial set-up on YouTube that leads you step by step through all the basic important stuff. You'd sell a ton more boards if the people who bought them could use even just a 1/4 of their potential.

Nedim- I was lazy with the keyboards I had before I got the XS. For me the 4th category on your list might be:
4. People who desire the capabilities but don't want to get bogged down by too much technology (these folks are willing to put in the effort to learn but require user-friendly boards)

[BasariStudios]

That is a valid Category Randy which i forgot to list...thanks...

[Synthoid]

I have a Yamaha Motif ES as well and believe me when I say, the learning curve on THAT is much greater than the M3. Yamaha's way of doing things can be just plain retarded sometimes.

I agree. I have a Motif XS and believe me...Yamaha likes to make things difficult!

Their file system is not as user-friendly as Korg and none of the preset programs in the main banks can be overwritten! They do give you 384 user banks for your own sounds, but that's nothing compared to the M3.

[orpheus2006]

The other extreme are the folks that have read (and understand) all the Wiki articles and are thinking about GEs in their sleep.

I would say that I have read almost all articles (and understand most of it), and I also consumed the complete 101 series in the PCA section, but I have just not enough time to finish my set of 16 combis that I started with. And yes, I dream about GEs in my sleeps.
I have similar experience with the KM3 software as you had. Purchased it, played around 2-3 weeks (result is just a set of 16 new user-defined drum patterns), and never used the software since then. I actually gave up when I tried to import some syncopated midi drum phrases and did not manage to turn them into useful GEs.

3 things I'd like to mention:
- the most limiting factor is time (especially if you are a hobby musician and if you have a demanding family. They notice every second you spend with your gear. Paradoxically, it is tolerated when I spend some time on the computer).
- programming a combi is really a lengthy and soporific task although it's kind of fun, too.
- although there are a lot of WIKI articles already, and the PCA videos are great, too, it is still not enough information. KM3 tutorials is clearly one thing that should be in Stephen's (large) backlog.

[jake519]

Hii guys.....I am planing to buy a new keyboard shortly.....my choices are tyros 3, psr s910, and Korg m3.....

In arranger keyboards we can use the INTROs, FILL INs, and ENDINGS...when we play a song.

My doubt is...in the case of korg m3 what will we do in the place of intros,endings...etc? Will the KARMA generate these.......If yes , how will we make it do that (there are no direct switches in the m3 as in arrangers).....
[I have never use a workstation before... ]

Anyone please..help....please...

[J.Q]

In arranger keyboards we can use the INTROs, FILL INs, and ENDINGS
...
in the case of korg m3 what will we do in the place of intros,endings...etc? Will the KARMA generate these

M3 is not an arranger keyboard. If you buy M3 assuming that it can do everything an arranger keyboard does, you will be disappointed.

KARMA sure can do some very cool things, but...