Chord Recognition

Peter J · Post by **Peter J** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:40 pm

Hi All,
Appended below ithe content of a post that I made some time ago to which nobody seemed able to help. The styles in question are I believe from the PA1X and with the chord inversions that I tend to use do not sound good. As I am now wishing to tidy up the styles on my PA2X, deleting some as necessary, I thought that I would ask the question again in the hope that someone might now be able to advise.

'I recently loaded a number of styles which had been posted on the forum and am confused about the chord recognition for these styles. I have noticed that with some of the styles, playing a G,C,E or A,C,F inversion results in the chord recognition engine playing C/G or F/A whilst with other styles the same inversions are recognised as C and F respectively [which is what I would prefer]. My chord recognition preference is set to expert.
The manual suggests that chord recognition can be saved to STS or performance but I cannot find where the adjustment may be made. If I open the Style Play / Split tab on the touch screen for different styles as described above which indicate C/G as opposed to C chord recognition, all are set to expert mode.
Can anyone advise how the PA2X can be set to recognise a G,C,E chord as C and not C/G in all cases?'
Alternatively, can the style be edited to recognize a GCE chord inversion as a C chord and not C/G?
Thank you.

miden · Post by **miden** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:49 pm

Peter just go into the MENU (the panel tab to the right of the screen) and set your preference to either "Expert" which will play the chord shape (for example) g-c-e as C/G, or to 1,2 or 3 fingered which will play the chord as a G major.

The other advantage of "Expert" mode, is you can also play simple 1/5 chords (no third) which work really well for rock tunes, particularly those with heavy guitars.

If you "unlock" preferences" under the GLOBAL panel button -

GLOBAL - LOCK - STYLE - STYLE PREFERENCES,

you can then save this setting with each different songbook entry or style.

Dennis

LESSISMORE · Post by **LESSISMORE** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:46 pm

Hi Peter

deactivate "Bass Conversion" on the Panel.
Its the Button beneath the "Manueal Bass"-Button. (Left to the display)

When its activ, the lowest note will play the bass every time.

miden · Post by **miden** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:25 am

LiM, that was a given... I assumed he did not have that button selected. After all it is NOT on by default...The OP did not make any mention of this.

Still a good thing to highlight though

Dennis

Peter J · Post by **Peter J** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 6:22 pm

Dennis and Lim,
Thank you for your prompt and knowledgeable answers to my query which have now allowed me to solve the problem.
As a default, I do not have the bass inversion button selected but I now can see that with the offending styles it is turned on automatically immediately the style is selected. I must admit that previously I had not used bass inversions so had not used this button.
I have now locked 'bass inversion' in Global which seems to have done the trick.
As an aside, with several of these styles which are generally song specific, on loading, an intro and variation are automatically selected. Some of these styles can however be used for other songs so I would prefer to select the intro manually as and when required but am not sure how this can be done.
Thank you again.

miden · Post by **miden** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 6:33 pm

Peter, go to the MEDIA panel button, select preferences, then turn off the PROTECT FACTORY STYLE SOUND radio button.

Then load up the style, simply either choose another intro or just a count-in, OR no intro at all

, then press open the page menu (far top right hand corner - a little "down" arrow") and then select "Write Current Style Performance"

This will then over-write the Factory style.

This process also allows you to move styles to anywhere you like, and to insert any user style you have into ANY slot on the keyboard.

However this comes with a note of caution, if you change the style in a slot, any other process that references that removed style, will also be affected.

It is not much of an issue when changing styles around, but it IS when changing sounds. As this process (de-selecting Factory Style Sound protect) also allows the user to move and change EVERY sound on the keyboard if the so wish....

So you can imagine if you move some sounds, every style that originally accessed that sound would need to be edited as well!!!

I usually do not move any sounds, I will edit them - for example, in my pianos I remove that annoying pedal sound on the RX pianos - but I do not recommending moving them.

Dennis

PS: The Protect Factory Style/Sound is automatically turned back on at EVERY boot, and the off status is NOT save-able in your Global setup.

Peter J · Post by **Peter J** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:01 pm

Dennis,
Thank you for that, working fine now.
I did not have to turn off the Protect Factory Style Sound button as the styles needing alteration were loaded in the Favourites bank.

miden · Post by **miden** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 6:05 pm

Cool

no worries then

D

Giner · Post by **Giner** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 1:00 am

Hi Peter J,

Do you not use bass inversions at all? For me, they are an essential element of many songs, it's a great feature. Elton John songs in particular make effective use of bass inverted chords. For one example, think of his "Rocket Man." Say, in the key of G.

G G/B C
And I think it's gonna be a long, long time

On the word 'be', to play that with a straight G chord without the B bass note would alter the sense of the line, musically, very much. Technically, it wouldn't be wrong, but it would certainly jar on the ear. Elton John's songs make great use of bass inverted chords. Of course, there are so many others by other writers too numerous to mention.

I hope you'll explore them, they'll enrich your playing to no end.

Cheers, Giner

Edit: Darn it, in the above example the G/B chord should fall on the word 'be', and the straight C on the word 'time'. I typed it as such, but it didn't appear that way in the post.

miden · Post by **miden** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 6:04 am

Thing is Giner you can get the same thing by having chord recognition in "Expert" mode!!

PLUS it (expert mode) also gives the huge advantage of recognising 1-5 chords..Power chords to a guitarist, or in other words no third!!

Great for rock songs, and for "emptier" accomp' patterns.

Dennis

Peter J · Post by **Peter J** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:53 pm

Giner,
Thanks for that.
Yes, certainly in some instances a G/B chord might be better and I would endeavour to play it where necessary.The problem I was having however with certain styles was that where I wanted a root position chord it was being recognized as an altered bass chord dependent on what chord inversion I was playing.
Also, I have chord recognition set to Expert Mode which gives the advantages that Dennis has described.

Giner · Post by **Giner** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:24 am

Ah, okay, Peter. I just wasn't sure from your earlier posts where you were in your playing abilities - hope you didn't think I was talking down in any way.

Dennis: I had forgotten to mention 'expert' mode. I use that myself all the time (not that I'd class myself as an expert

).

jg:: · Post by **jg::** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:55 am

Hi folks. Peter, I'm not sure whether you're using Songbook mode to call up Styles. If so, then the STS that you save with the style can also save the position of the Bass Inversion button, and the Manual Bass button, and the Chord Scanning buttons, etc. Plus, a Songbook entry can save the Style Element that is ready to go on selecting that Style.

jg::

Peter J · Post by **Peter J** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:23 pm

Giner,
No problem.

jg,
Thank you for that.
Yes, I use songbook or style play direct to call up styles. My styles in songbook are edited factory styles or styles I have made from Standard Midi Files [by markers].
Most of these songbook styles use default settings of the features you mentioned and even though I have read and reread the user manual many times, I do not think it is as clear as it might be in regard to what can be saved and where. The PA2X is a complex instrument and so I am sure that I, and probably others, are not exploiting all of its features fully. I have therefore learnt a lot from the forum and valued the input from people like yourself, Dennis, Rob Sherratt and others in taking time to explain and unravel some of the intracacies of a great keyboard. Many thanks.

simondrake · Post by **simondrake** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:38 pm

Hi everyone. Very interesting topic. I'm learning jazzy rootless chords. Even though I set the chord scanning to full keyboard and expert it seems that the pa2x does not recognise them. I mean Bflat-D-F-A is the rootless G minor 7/9 but the pa calls it B flat M7. Do you know if this can be changed? Thanks. Simone.
I ask this because I'd love to comp with rootless chords left hand and try improvise with the right having a correct accompainment from the pa. Of course everything works when - add the root of the chord, but that is what my teacher doesn't want... Any tip?