KORG listen

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:35 am

Hey snazzyplayer

I do like the Tyros SA2 technology - my beef with it is the you do not have complete control over it. A classic example of this is with SA2 sax sound (and others) which "decides" to glide to the next note played WITHOUT your pressing the SW1/2 controls - this irritates me. DNC gives me complete control - yes there is a learning curve to effective use these features but let's face it, the features are offering us the opportunity to think like "sax" players (in this example).

I love the technology and strive to make my playing as authentic as possible depending on the "instrument sound" I have selected.

That is why the SA is less advantageous for me.

Cheers

Pete

worth · Post by **worth** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:38 am

at the moment all the talk of the advantage of DNC over SA is just theory. I have not heard yet one , not even one demo of a player or demonstrator using DNC where the sound was better than what has been demonstrated on the Tyro 2,3 or 4. I have a Korg too and i am not trying to promote yamaha on a Korg forum but there comes a time when the theorising has to stop. In realty in almost every respect the Tyros in terms of sound realism and playability is head and shoulders above the Korg.

If i have missed some outstanding demos of DNC then please please please show me.

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:42 am

Hi worth

It is not a theory as far as I am concerned.
I was only expressing my personal experience with my (ex) Tyros' "SA/SA2" and PA2Xpro's DNC.

I just hate NOT being in control - DNC wins - this also applies to Tyros VARs and FILLS - limited control!!!

It looks like (from limited demos) the PA3X DNC is even better than ever and I would suspect leaves Tyros behind.

Cheers my friend,

Pete

snazzyplayer · Post by **snazzyplayer** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:21 pm

karmathanever wrote:I was only expressing my personal experience with my (ex) Tyros' "SA/SA2" and PA2Xpro's DNC.

I just hate NOT being in control - DNC wins - this also applies to Tyros VARs and FILLS - limited control!!!

It looks like (from limited demos) the PA3X DNC is even better than ever and I would suspect leaves Tyros behind.

Pete

I really wish I could hear what you hear in those PA3X demos, Pete.

So far, I've hardly been impressed at all...and, as far as fills go, I still maintain that the Yamaha styles (on all Yamaha, especially on the mid and high end models) have a smoother and more logically musical transition from Variation to Variation...this appears to be the same with the PA3X, from the limited demos we've heard.

I'm like Worth; I really want to like this new PA3X...I'm a Korg admirer as well as a Yamaha and Roland advocate.

I do understand your position on SA/SA2 "limited control", however, it does as advertised and as intended. I prefer being able to add nuances by how I phrase, because I am primarily a player. You have different needs and preferences...DNC is better...let's hope it is also "better" sonically than from what we've heard.

I really hope you are not disappointed in the PA3X when you actually get to hear and play it...your posts appear to be embittered ("hate" is a strong word

) towards Yamaha's way of doing things, and it appears you are nailing your contract of allegiance firmly to the mast of a flagship that is trailing in the wake of another more powerful vessel, which at this posting, is the Tyros4.

I may eat my words when I play and hear the PA3X myself...but, so far, I don't have much fear of a meal at Korg's behest.

We'll all keep rooting for Korg in any case; as I said earlier, it's nigh on impossible to buy a bad sounding TOTL arranger these days. Let's hope that Korg's latest and greatest offerering is as a significant upgrade from the PA2Xpro as Yamaha's Tyros4 is from the T3.

Pete

worth · Post by **worth** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:27 pm

thats ok Pete . We can disagree but remember .....i am always right

Seriously though can someone point to just one Demo of DNC where you can confidently say it sounded better than the equivalent yamaha Tyros SA sound ? Did i miss something ?

........Just one ........

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:31 pm

We can disagree but remember .....i am always right

Sorry man - completely slipped my mind

Seriously though can someone point to just one Demo of DNC where you can confidently say it sounded better than the equivalent yamaha Tyros SA sound ?

All I can say to that comment is
"Seriously though can someone point to just one Demo of ANYTHING where you can confidently say it sounded better than the equivalent yamaha Tyros"

WE SO NEED SOME DEMOs

Pete

snazzyplayer · Post by **snazzyplayer** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:55 pm

karmathanever wrote:
WE SO NEED SOME DEMOs

Pete

WE SURE DO

Giner · Post by **Giner** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:54 pm

They will surely come . . . er, as will Christmas.

Sam CA · Post by **Sam CA** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:07 am

karmathanever wrote:
I just hate NOT being in control - DNC wins -

Great , so when are we going to hear your demos?

miden · Post by **miden** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:41 am

karmathanever wrote:Hey snazzyplayer

I do like the Tyros SA2 technology - my beef with it is the you do not have complete control over it. A classic example of this is with SA2 sax sound (and others) which "decides" to glide to the next note played WITHOUT your pressing the SW1/2 controls - this irritates me.

Actually Pete, you do have control with the SA voices, it's how you physically play the keys. Play very legato and you get the slides, play with a shorter time between key presses (not exactly staccato, but shorter -it IS subtle) and you get a more "normal" sound.

This method works for pretty much all the SA2 voices I believe..

Dennis

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:05 am

you do have control with the SA voices

Hey Dennis - sorry mate but not totally true:-
Example: I became really p....d off recording a sax (SA2) solo when I did not want the Tyros to decide "gliding" notes for me - it didn't matter HOW I played it, the glide was sometimes there, sometimes not - drove me mad - this mostly happens after a pause in the playing of the sax and depended on the difference (i.e. how much higher) the next note played is - the documentation even confirms that this is how SA2 works - sorry - DNC for me.
I experimented with this to try and figure out Yamaha's logic behind it - there probably is a logical pattern somewhere but the instrument (SA2 sax sound) is not completely controllable - mostly it sounds good but I hate the lack of control - I hate surprises!!!
In the end it was "back to the PA2X" and re-record.

Cheers mate

Pete

Lee · Post by **Lee** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:36 pm

OK, very interesting...now a BIG question...
For anyone that really knows: AND if know one knows...we need to find out.

Is there the equivelent QUALITY sound that matches he SA or SA2 voices on the T4..THAT DOES NOT have any SA stuff going on?

So, example might be is there a great SAX sound (maybe based on the same samples) as the SA2 SAX?

This is critical for me, if I am playing orchestral music I sure as 'H' don't want any glides ect. It's OK if there is a trill when I hit a certain velocity. Or if a switch is required to d a trill up/down etc.

If here is not a high quaity voice eqivelent, then I may stay with Korg as well.

Lee

miden · Post by **miden** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:52 pm

karmathanever wrote:
you do have control with the SA voices
Hey Dennis - sorry mate but not totally true:-
Example: I became really p....d off recording a sax (SA2) solo when I did not want the Tyros to decide "gliding" notes for me - it didn't matter HOW I played it, the glide was sometimes there, sometimes not - drove me mad - this mostly happens after a pause in the playing of the sax and depended on the difference (i.e. how much higher) the next note played is - the documentation even confirms that this is how SA2 works - sorry - DNC for me.
I experimented with this to try and figure out Yamaha's logic behind it - there probably is a logical pattern somewhere but the instrument (SA2 sax sound) is not completely controllable - mostly it sounds good but I hate the lack of control - I hate surprises!!!
In the end it was "back to the PA2X" and re-record.

Cheers mate

Pete

No worries, I'll be wrong again sometime in the future

I was basing it on comments made by a Yamaha demonstrator on another forum. I must have misunderstood him, or maybe he wasn't definitive enough about the "exact" technique he used....anyhoo sorry to derail the flow of the thread...

Dennis

adimatis · Post by **adimatis** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:33 pm

The truth is both SA and DNC voices and the sounds themselves (samples) are down to personal preferences. I don't see much point in debating very indepth such an issue, as to my ears something will sound better and feel better than to yours. And the opposite.

Also, it's true that both Yamaha and Korg, and all the others, offer us the players a level of realism of the sounds that has never been reached before. It's progress. Now, if someone prefers how SA works or DNC, it's completely down to personal taste. Neither of them is "stupid" or "silly" but they are "appealing" and "easy to understand and use" or not, again, down to personal preferences.

To me, I just hope the cost of a new arranger won't totally broke my wallet. Tyros 4 would do this, so it's not an option... for me. If I had that money to sped, I might like SA better.

So, right now, I am simply waiting to see what will Pa3x will actually provoke in the lower segment - the next Pa50 or Pa500. That is what I am waiting for - Korg, please listen to this: make it cheap and great!

Vangelismusic · Post by **Vangelismusic** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:16 am

Although I am a truly die-hard KORG fan I must say the truth even though it hurts,in my opinion to date the following arrangers are top and they are in order:
No.1 KETRON AYDYA No2. YAMAHA TYROS 4 No.3 ?
from reading and watching all the demos, of course keep in mind that each company gets customers from previous owners of their arrangers.