CAN KARMA DO THE SAME WORK AS AUTO ACCOMPANIMENT......

[jake519]

Hi Everybody....

I have been searching an answer for this question for months and failed....

We use the auto accompaniment feature in the arrangers for playing songs...etc and we can have INTROs, FILL INs, ENDINGs ...while playing is very much useful while playing live......

My doubt is that.....can KARMA in the korg Workstations like m3... do the same job as that of auto accompaniment......can we control it when playing live ?

I am planning to buy a new keyboard shortly...and I am very much confused between few arrangers and the M3...I watched nearly all the demo videos of m3 and liked it very much...But am not confident enough to buy it till I get an answer for the question above.......

Somebody out there please reply.....please....


.[/b]

[billbaker]

Jake,

I've owned a Karma, and an early i-2 - those are, I think similar enough to m3 and PA to answer your question.

The answer is no, Karma will not do the intros or endings you're used to in an arranger. Karma tends to go, from 1st key down, right into a pattern - you can pick when to start (on/off), but there's no "intro" pattern (i.e., 4 to 8 bars to cadence).

The advantage Karma gives is in the ability to give you a more flexible accompaniment -- a bass line actually changes following you not only harmonically, but rhythmically as well, and relative complexity (how busy a part is) can be adjusted using performance control knobs. The multiple scenes can automate some changes for you, so you will find Karma-based patterns appropriate for verse, chorus, bridge, etc. on most of the combis on the m3 (based on my experience with in-store auditioning).

There is a little more of what you're used to in the drum tracks. No intro/endings but I believe the m3 does provide some of the break/fill patterns you are seeking with most of the "styles" of drum tracks. So, for 'Hard Rock' drum track you'll get a couple of variations including a 2 or 4 bar fill you can toggle to. These patterns can also be associated with single programs as well as combis so there's an advantage if you want to do simpler stuff or play with other instruments.

If you need to have the same thing happen the same way, every time, without surprises an auto arranger is ideal... live shows need that reliability; vocalists count on it.

If you can live without the "carved-in-stone" beginnings and endings, and can perhaps adjust either to an abrupt start or fading in on the groove, Karma is the consistently more interesting to listen to, and play with, option.

BB

[alland]

My doubt is that.....can KARMA in the korg Workstations like m3... do the same job as that of auto accompaniment......can we control it when playing live ?

KARMA can be controlled when playing live, but short answer and as explained by others - no, KARMA does not do the same job as auto accompaniment or any arranger keyboard.

I use them both (M3 and Pa2x) and they complement each other but are not replaceable.

[jake519]

Thank you friends.......thanks for replying.. ...

May I ask you one more question....as u said..if KARMA cannot have intros, fill in s, and endings..., then what will KARMA do in the place of these?
Or KARMA starts suddenly without any introduction or something like that in a 'RAW' manner.. ..

Also please don't forget to suggest few arrangers for me, which can do some recording, editing, mixing etc...and have Quality voices tooooo...

[alland]

KARMA has "scenes" - variations of combinations of generated effects that can and in factory settings often are programmed in way that gives you certain dynamics that can be used in different parts of the songs you play.

With several M3 features (sequencer, rppr, drum track, KARMA) one can theoretically program the workstation behave pretty close to arranger but still M3 has different purpose.

By the way KARMA new version introduced with Yamaha Motif has several features that brings it somewhat closer to arranger features but KARMA still is not an arranger feature and has its own uses and advantages.

You can find many threads in this forum and in Karma-Lab forums that discuss KARMA vs arranger features. I think best way to know what KARMA can do is to watch numerous demos available over net.

I am happy with Pa2x Pro arranger (considering being replaced by Pa3x some time and having been using Yamaha PSR 740/2000before). If you require serious "recording, editing, mixing etc" capabilities then I'd rather look some computer based solutions. Arrangers generally have much more limited (oriented to live performance) in this area than workstations (oriented more to studio works) but even then computer DAW are more convenient to work with.

[BasariStudios]

KARMA V3 will be closer to Arranger since it has the FILL IN function
but even in Kronos, its still KARMA V2, we can forget about M3 i guess.

[jake519]

But friends, in one of the demonstration videos of sam ash, i think he mentioned that the pads can be used for Intros, fill ins etc.....
Is it true.....? if yes...how?????

[alland]

But friends, in one of the demonstration videos of sam ash, i think he mentioned that the pads can be used for Intros, fill ins etc.....
Is it true.....?

Friend, you want us to see through all 6 or so demo clips to confirm?

if yes...how?????

If someone mentioned using pads in this context he or she probably was keeping in mind using RPPR feature.
Assuming you use SEQ mode, Yes, you can prerecord patterns and assign these to certain keys and therefore to pads too. In fact you can prerecord parts that resemble Intros, Var 1..N, Fills, Endings etc. Then each song can contain up to 100 user patterns. One can build something that looks like arranger, but these recorded patterns do not follow your chords, you cannot play them like styles in any key.

[jake519]

SO......
If one is told to perform with an m3 live on the stage ... for surprise.....He's gona suck...... Am I right??????
( because he will not be able to control the KARMA....as he like ....It plays its own notes according to his playing....and he cannot predict what is NEXT).....?????!!!!!

[gurn]

I was trying to explain KARMA to a Yamaha player (a very good one).

I told him it resembles a computer Chess program more than an arpeggiator or an auto-accompaniment feature.
But unlike a computer Chess program, it's collaborative rather than competitive.
It's like playing Chess with a computer on your team, rather than playing against one.

The KARMA algorithm offers the player options or 'moves' he or she might
not have considered. Sometimes, they don't work. Sometimes, they are brilliant.

It's definitely changed my music more than anything since the invention of MIDI.

[alland]

SO......
If one is told to perform with an m3 live on the stage ... for surprise.....He's gona suck...... Am I right??????
( because he will not be able to control the KARMA....as he like ....It plays its own notes according to his playing....and he cannot predict what is NEXT).....?????!!!!!

Quite opposite - you can control KARMA pretty good.
It does not mean that anybody performing M3 is able to master it, including being "able to control" KARMA. Problem of "controlling" is not in KARMA

It takes some time and effort to understand and master KARMA to perform it good in live. Like any other instrument.

[iixorbiusii]

The way I see KARMA is it's a compositional tool more so than a live tool. I am a very lazy programmer and not a skilled player. However with KARMA, I can get inspired very quickly - my own ideas are lacking, but KARMA helps me through this. If I need to create an intro, I'll just edit or mute out the tracks which I don't want at the start.

I think for live playing, you may be better off with a dedicated arranger which you can get spontaneous and predictable fills, variations etc etc. With KARMA, you can easily 'adjust' something and suddenly you have no idea what is going on! Perfect and unique for creative experimentation, but potentially a disaster live on stage!

[orpheus2006]

On stage I would primarily use pre-programmed KARMA scenes with a quantize window of 1 bar, but not control KARMA using the sliders. The result is predictable and repeatable. With the scene matrix you can easily choose from 32 different scenes per combi.
I would use the sliders only during the Combi programming process.

[jake519]

Hi friends...
I Have gone through some demos of the yamaha motif xs, es, xf
I think they are better than the m3...(in the sense-I am currently using an arranger) ...because the arpeggiators in there when combined with drum tracks sound like the auto accompaniment and we can predict the patterns also and overall it is a professional workstation tooo... So if i chose them as my FIRST workstation i may be able to settle down with it faster than with the m3 ...........
Am I goin the right way? please correct me if I am not.....

[BasariStudios]

You can predict the patterns on the M3 too if you have preprogrammed,
in no way a Motif can be better then M3 when KARMAs compared.
First of all Motf KARMA is not even integrated a lot of people also missunderstand
this and think they get a Motif with KARMA in it...lol, to use KARMA with
Motif you need a PC at ANYTIME otherwise you have no KARMA.
On the other hand, you really comparing Arps with KARMA? lol...