Kronos Balanced Output Question

blackdogmusic · Post by **blackdogmusic** » Wed May 18, 2011 10:01 am

Good Morning,

I have been following the forums as a non member for quite some time in anticipation of my 88 Key Kronos. The forum has provided me with a ton of information as well as helped me pass the time waiting for it's arrival.

As the delivery date gets nearer I am preparing to incorporate it into my live setup. Currently I used a Roland RD-700GXF which has balanced stereo XLR outputs that I can plug directly into our sound snake.

My question is, if the audio jacks are balanced 1/4" on the Kronos, can I use two 1/4" - XLR cables to plug directly into our sound snake without the use of a DI Box, or should I be looking into getting a good stereo DI box for this application? If I do need a DI Box, am I correct in assuming I would require a passive DI Box for this application?

Excuse me of this question has been asked prior, I did a search on it and couldn't find anything on the topic. Thank you for your help with this post and all the other info I have read back through January!

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Wed May 18, 2011 10:17 am

The Kronos has balanced outputs/inputs: so nothing will change for you.

Rosen Sound · Post by **Rosen Sound** » Wed May 18, 2011 11:08 am

I always think its a good idea to not plug directly into the FOH
sound guys suck. bad! I would suggest you get a line mixer or interface, you will get better sound and more control over your volume.

http://robertrosen.weebly.com/gear1.html
read about the MOTU

blackdogmusic · Post by **blackdogmusic** » Thu May 19, 2011 11:41 am

Thanks for the info, I checked out the link. I actually have a PreSonus Firestudio project that I use for recording, I guess I didn't even think about it for live performance.

We are actually pretty fortunate to have our own sound guy almost every show. I have been working with him in building my setup. He is obtaining a PreSonus StudioLive mixer which now has the remote software for iPad. My initial thought was I could pull up my monitor mixer on the iPad remotely. (Feel free to chime in if anyone knows any problems with this).

Would not having an interface or line mixer explain why I get such hot levels on the board? I find myself turning the keyboard master volume down below halfway just to keep the lines out of the red.

I am not very technical when it comes to this stuff, I came from a piano background and joined a rock band a couple years ago, any info you can provide so I get a good solid setup is awesome.

Other thing I noticed, on your link I saw that you do not perform in stereo. I typically perform mono on my Roland, but was thinking with the awesome piano sampled sounds from Kronos you would want a stereo to get the full sampled sound. Am I wrong to assume this?

blackdogmusic · Post by **blackdogmusic** » Wed May 25, 2011 9:43 am

No one has any more input on the subject?

I did a bit of research...I am assuming if I wanted to use an interface like the MOTU or my Presonus that I would need to have a computer driving the interface? I would like to avoid that if possible as I do not use soft synths or any software for that matter.

I was looking into robbinhood's suggestions and came across this rack line mixer, does anyone have any input on this product?

http://tascam.com/product/lm-8st/

Looks like a solid, less expensive product that would suit my needs with little sound interference.

Thanks again robbinhood for the website, I now see how I could benefit from a rack unit in my setup.

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Wed May 25, 2011 1:30 pm

One possible alternative:

http://www.musicstore.de/en_EN/GBP/Ales ... 002768-000

Mystic38 · Post by **Mystic38** » Wed May 25, 2011 2:52 pm

as far as your gain is concerned.. your RD has xlr balanced and so outputs at +4dBu.. you have trim on the presonus box, so you should turn the gain down on the box so that you can have the rd at 75-90% volume without clipping

there is no reason to expect the kronos to be different in terms of output levels.. just dont use inputs 1,2 on that box

synthjoe · Post by **synthjoe** » Sat May 28, 2011 11:20 am

robbinhood wrote:I always think its a good idea to not plug directly into the FOH

Seconded. Long cable runs can produce nasty results - especially when equipment at both ends are connected to two different electrical circuits. I would use a DI, not a huge investment when compared to the Kronos. I use a Behringer RX1602 mixer, cheap and works fine for me. Unbalanced outputs (made for DI

), but inputs are balanced.

Other thing I noticed, on your link I saw that you do not perform in stereo. I typically perform mono on my Roland, but was thinking with the awesome piano sampled sounds from Kronos you would want a stereo to get the full sampled sound. Am I wrong to assume this?

Monitor in stereo, if you can. It is double the weight and equipment to connect, but it sounds so much better...

blackdogmusic · Post by **blackdogmusic** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:41 am

Hey guys, couple more questions for you. I have put together my new rack system for the Kronos based on the suggestions here. The setup looks like this:

1) Furman M8-LX
2) Shure PSM 900 / Line 6 G30 Relay (For Acoustic Violin)
3) Tascam LM-8ST 8Ch line mixer (all balanced 1/4 inputs)
4) Rack Drawer

Now comes time to buy cables and I want to buy them correctly the first time. I am planning on going with Mogami Gold and using 20ft TRS cables for stereo from the Kronos.

I am unsure about the proper way to hook up the Moog LP and the Line 6 Relay. Both I believe are unbalanced outputs going to balanced inputs so:

1) Should I use standard TS instrument cables? and

2) Does this mean I need a DI box between the connections?

Our sound guy thinks I can get away without it, or if there is a problem just connect a DI box after the line mixer.

3) I noticed the mixer has switches below the input jacks that say "-10db | +4db." Can someone tell me what they are used for? I thought maybe this had something to do with being able to use unbalanced equipment.

Thank you for all the help!

Mystic38 · Post by **Mystic38** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:32 pm

As I had finally ran out of inputs on my behringer x1622usb mixer I bought the Tascam lm8st.
Sadly it lacks a mute button per channel, other than that it is an excellent unit.
For unbalanced outputs connecting to the Tascam u can simply use TS cables, but there is no downside to using TRS cables. The +4/-10 switch is a gain switch.
Unbalanced outputs are referenced to a level of -10db while balanced outputs are referenced to +4db and so provide more output.. So simply use the gain switch to increase the input gain on the mixer if needed.

shap · Post by **shap** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:36 am

If you are concerned for sound quality, consider trading out the lm8st for a Motu 828mk3 hybrid. In addition to the fact that it will work as a standalone mixer, it provides two channels of ADAT out. If you buy decent glass fiber rather than crappy plastic, you can run the ADAT fiber 50 feet without any problem. Alternatively, if you're committed to the StudioLive, you should be able to use the firewire channels.

The ADAT is digital, so it's completely immune to noise.

Have to say, though, that committing to StudioLive seems a bit counter-intuitive to me. For less money than that you can get a Mackie HUI and a laptop, and you'll end up with a solution that's much more useful in the studio down the road. For that matter you could skip the mackie, as there are a bunch of programs now for the iPad.

Mystic38 · Post by **Mystic38** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:45 am

Motu $749 and 4 stereo inputs, Tascam $280 and 8 stereo inputs... So the op needs a mixer regardless, and already has an audio interface

blackdogmusic · Post by **blackdogmusic** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 2:42 am

Well, I couldn't hold out any longer. I have to be in the studio in September and needed time to work with the Kronos before I record with it. Guitar Center called me on a 61 key in stock so I nabbed the last one. Perhaps I'll move to an 88 if I need to down the road once the new album tour starts. On the bright side, its easier to bring back and forth from the home studio to rehearsal space.

Does anyone know of a good quality MIDI controller that is light to haul around, would work well with the Kronos, and maybe under or around $1000 so I can get some money back if I sell the Roland?

You guys have been more than helpful and I am pretty stoked about my new setup! Already using the piano, string, and polysix patches to put together some scratch demos before studio time. Sure blows me M3 out of the water!!!

Thanks again for all your help!

EXer · Post by **EXer** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:51 am

blackdogmusic wrote:Does anyone know of a good quality MIDI controller that is light to haul around, would work well with the Kronos, and maybe under or around $1000 so I can get some money back if I sell the Roland?

I would suggest to keep your RD-700. You won't find a piano action type kbd which is closer to the real thing.

That said, from a pianist's point of vue, the FATAR WMK-188 PLUS controller has one of the best actions, although it doesn't have an escapement feel like the Roland PHA II/III.

Mystic38 · Post by **Mystic38** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:10 pm

+1

the RD has an outstanding action.. and also nice pads and vox patches.

EXer wrote:
blackdogmusic wrote:Does anyone know of a good quality MIDI controller that is light to haul around, would work well with the Kronos, and maybe under or around $1000 so I can get some money back if I sell the Roland?
I would suggest to keep your RD-700. You won't find a piano action type kbd which is closer to the real thing.

That said, from a pianist's point of vue, the FATAR WMK-188 PLUS controller has one of the best actions, although it doesn't have an escapement feel like the Roland PHA II/III.

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Kronos Balanced Output Question

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