pc3 synth sounds vs m3 exb radias

[brandon]

hi everyone i have one very specific question, and i realise korg forums may not be the best place to ask this... but if you wanted a keyboard to write prog metal with, and you were only concerned with synth sounds, and you had the choice between an m3 w/ exb radias or a kurzweil pc3 what would u pick? and why?

thanks guys, hopefully you didn't find this question too annoying
ps. when i say only concerned with synth sounds i'm not i'm just already on the kurzweil side of the fence for non-synth sounds but still not sold for synth

[ozy]

I own both, and my totally personal opinion is:

a) radias is FAR easier to program if you are accustomed to the basic "minimoogish" subtractive architecture. Building a brass padd or a "moog lead" is a breeze.

Pc3 is far more complex.

This, if you want to PROGRAM sounds

b) if you can't program analoguish nor vast, and rely on factory and third party patches:

b/1) "analoguish" sounds are on the same level [crispier the radias, more muddy/saturated the pc3], except for sincs which are a bit hollow in the radias

b/2) fm, digital, sinc sounds are far better on the pc3.

b/3) sound library of ready patches for the pc3 [OS 2.3, which includes Kxxx series import] is more or less 10 times bigger that the radias'.

Me (in these cases, sticking to PERSONAL experience is paramount),

a) if I can't take the real analogues with me, and if I choose to go anyway, on the radias I can decently create a replica of more or less anything I get from the prophets, OBies and the basic lead lines from the modulars [just a general decent imitaion, no way the real thing] .

b) I don't use the pc3's more digital, harsh sounds because it's not what I like.

I know plenty of people love them. I sold my DX7 after a month and never bought a PPG, so... you do the math.

c) some analoguish sounds I found pre-programmed on the pc3 are killers.

So, it depends on:

* can you program a analogue? --> probably radias

* can you program VAST? ---> Probably pc3

* can't you program at all and need patches? --> probably pc3

* do you want a "minimoog"? ---> probably radias

* or a wider palette with digital and fm sounds? --> probably pc3

I know, this is not an answer. It's just my two cents.

POST SCRIPTUM:

radias has got a vocoder, pc3 hasn't.

[brandon]

Thanks ozy, that was useful info for me. What i'm still not sure about is is programming on the pc3 just slower by naturethan the m3? Or can u program at a decent speed once u understand vast? I myself usually tweak presets, and i'm scared that i might get the pc3 and spend all of my ime trying to get the sound that i want out of it.
Thanks

[ozy]

everything is in the sentence "once you understand VAST".

How much time do you need for that? Do you have the time for reading the k2600 manual and spend come time on "cunka" [they are excellent and friendly, by the way. The resident Korg "insider gurus" could learn a thing or two]?

I don't, and in 6 months I devoted maybe half a day to digging into VAST. Too little.

It's a brand new logic by comparison to korg interface.

I dunno how smart you are.

Me, e.g., after 10 seconds could fine tune effects to a nice extent,

but when I was faced with a rhodes patch whose whawha was generated by a filter algorhytm,

I spent two hours just to figure out how the heck I could route the wha to a specific controller. No way it resembled to the usual routings I am accustomed to in analogues or in the classic Korg architecture (which is still basically the one of M1, with more pages).

So, you need to take time. Buy the pc3 now, gig in two days with customized factory patches, but gig in one month with YOUR patches, if you focus HARD on it.

The PC3 PERFORMANCE interface on the contrary is incredibly easy and friendly, everything can be routed to everything and all physical controllers are user-configurable [e.g.: you can use the "program select" buttons to start/toggle elements of the patch],

and this makes it incredibly easy to play and use,

but starting from scratch and building, say, a trivial "cars string patch" is easisre on a Korg, at least for me.

Less stupid people, or longtime Kurz users, will say the contrary.

Of course I didn't mention the other sounds. You asked about analogue emulation, I spoke just about that.

The other sounds are such, that my bottom keyboard is a pc3 now. The m3 I use only as a complement/sequencer.

If you asked about the Kronos vs pc3 it would have been different, but on a mere sound quality level pc3 is quite better than m3.

[brandon]

ah man its so hard to decide, i get 2 weeks of uni soon so i suppose i could get stuck into vast then, and i get 3 months of at the end of the year, but i think i would rather spend the time advancing my playing ability. they are both such nice instruments

[brandon]

ah man its so hard to decide, i get 2 weeks of uni soon so i suppose i could get stuck into vast then, and i get 3 months of at the end of the year, but i think i would rather spend the time advancing my playing ability. they are both such nice instruments

[ozy]

i would rather spend the time advancing my playing ability.

that's the catch 22.

I absolutely prefer spending 90% of my playing time on the ivories,

so learning vast is out of question.

the catch 22 is: I spent FAR more time trying to get decent rhodes sounds out of the m3, while the pc3 allowed me to just configure (layer, fuine tune effects) and play without learning vast.

On the "analogue" front, forget vast if you are not a geek.

But then: why not a real analogue and a pc3 (which is what I am using)?

I don't recommend you the M3 due to its shortcomings (repeat, for korg zealotes: I am talking about the m3, not the Kronos).

m3 76 = 2200 eur ca

pc3 76 = 1300 eur ca, + matrix1000 250 eur + mopho 250 eur = 1800.

or pc3 76 = 1300 eur ca + used virus keyboard, less than 800 eurs

[Synthoid]

if you wanted a keyboard to write prog metal with, and you were only concerned with synth sounds, and you had the choice between an m3 w/ exb radias or a kurzweil pc3 what would u pick?

I'd buy the M3 with EXB-Radias because of the amount of synth sounds you'll get right out of the box. The M3 is a lot easier to navigate and program with its touch screen. (Kurzweil continues to use 1980's size screens in the PC3 series). You also get the unique KARMA feature and drum tracks with the M3 that provide inspiration when practicing or composing.

Several years ago I purchased a Kurzweil K2661 because of all the hype, "amazing VAST capabilities", and "the hundreds of free Kurzweil sounds online you can download." At the time I also owned a Korg Triton, and while the Kurzweil's piano and acoustic sounds were superior, the Triton was a breeze to program--especially in live situations when last minute tweaks pop up. I'll say this for VAST, it's deep and fascinating, but as ozy said, "forget vast if you are not a geek." I also discovered that people who had stated there were "hundreds of free Kurzweil sounds online" were full of crap. After extensive searching, various links to patch websites were often dead. What I did eventually find were maybe a few dozen usable sounds.

Obviously the PC3 series has more/better sounds than my K2661, but still offers a small display screen (often with cryptic text) and endless menu diving. If you just want to play presents, then it's a good choice.

I use a lot of unique sounds in my music, so I'm rarely looking for a perfect Hammond B3, Rhodes, flute, etc. I prefer creating sounds nobody has heard before and layering them together--that's much easier to do with the M3 and Radias.

[brandon]

I don't recommend you the M3 due to its shortcomings (repeat, for korg zealotes: I am talking about the m3, not the Kronos).

m3 76 = 2200 eur ca

pc3 76 = 1300 eur ca, + matrix1000 250 eur + mopho 250 eur = 1800.

or pc3 76 = 1300 eur ca + used virus keyboard, less than 800 eurs

the thing is here in australia the pc3 76 is $1900 new (and that's a really good price), i can get a used m3 w/ radias for around the same price

[vladimotor]

I am not familiar with Prog Metal but, how about perhaps getting PC3 and a used Korg MS2000b or R3?

[baboon]

Obviously the PC3 series has more/better sounds than my K2661, but still offers a small display screen (often with cryptic text) and endless menu diving. If you just want to play presents, then it's a good choice.

You can use the pc3 sound editing software.A full-featured editor/librarian and sound development tool.