Kronos nylon

BergerS · Post by **BergerS** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:13 am

10 years ago they said that electric keyboards will never get convincing piano emulation.
Till this day, an electric keyboard is not the same as a real piano but they are pretty damn close - close enough that they are used in most professional productions and sound very good.

I believe that guitar sounds can be emulated pretty closely on a keyboard in a similar way, it is just that no one invested enough development in that direction.

If I was a professional gig keyboard player, I'd go with a Nord because it does an excellent job with keyboard sounds - I refer to sounds which are played by different kinds of keyboards, but they all have black and white keys and require a similar playing technique .

Now, when I shop for a workstation, its great to have all of these keyboard sounds covered, but I'd like to have other instruments covered as well.

If no one had great guitar sounds (Yamaha has these), or great orchestral sounds (Kurzweil been doing these for years) or a really intuitive sequencer interface (Ensoniq did that 20 years ago with 2 lines of fluorescent display), I'd say - forget it!
The fact is, these were already done, no need to invent the wheel.
Problem is - I'm a romantic guy, I'm looking for a "best of breed", fact is, product management is the art of combining available resources with market demand while getting the best profit, and these does not end up with the best instrument possible.

My point? how about starting with several MB worth of decent guitar sounds samples which are probably available of the shelf.

mjames4208 · Post by **mjames4208** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:13 pm

ddavilyx wrote:mjames4208, have you truly heard motifator.com sounds. You will return your Kronos.

i already have a motifxs and some their sample library, but that wouldn't make me get rid of my Kronos. I'm not a brand loyalist, I purchase what ever i like regardless of other peoples opinion.

keyplayer14 · Post by **keyplayer14** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:18 pm

ddavilyx wrote:mjames4208, have you truly heard motifator.com sounds. You will return your Kronos.

Mods? Any chance we can lose the troll....?

panrixx · Post by **panrixx** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:06 pm

EXer wrote:
ddavilyx wrote:Hi folks. I have a problem with Kronos. [...] The sounds of the nylons and Steel guitars are not what I expected at all. They don't even compare to the original classic motif.
This requirement can be met easily: buy a Motif rack to complement your Kronos.

I'm awaiting a K88 but I do have the Motif ES rack, which I'll not sell

sparkie · Post by **sparkie** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:58 pm

Opinion.. I just sold my MotifXF and the guitars do sound better than on the Kronos ..But...since the ..interface.. processor...and pretty much everything else sucks on the Motif, the Kronos wins hands down.

Look at this guitar sound on the J80 by Scott TIbbs ...doesnt sound too bad. Go to 3:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4DuPALTmIc

operaman · Post by **operaman** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:44 pm

Here is my problem with this thread. We have some guy come on here trying to justify his purchase of a Yamaha whatever he has. Hey, good for you.

I am here to learn more about Kronos. I am NOT here to wade through a hoard of mine is bigger than yours threads which is the entire point of this thread. You did not ask RichF or Dan or someone from Korg if there was the possibility of sound sets in the future. You come on here today to say how Korg "can't do it", etc. Listen, I could care less if you compose whole compositions on a eucilale. What I do care about is having toward through infantile discussions from MEN no less on why their workstation or piece of equipment is better. I am glad you are happy with your Yamaha purchase, and they indeed do make great products in their own right. I do want you banned however, because I am tired of your type coming on here just to stir things up and troll.

Now I will turn this thread into a discussion. Are there sample sets of nylon quitters and strings we can load in the future? i.e. Karo, or perhaps a future updates from a sound designer?

Synthesizedclapping · Post by **Synthesizedclapping** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:58 pm

operaman wrote: Listen, I could care less if you compose whole compositions on a eucilale

Is that how you spell eucilale? Learn something new everyday.

operaman · Post by **operaman** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 3:10 pm

Synthesizedclapping wrote:
operaman wrote: Listen, I could care less if you compose whole compositions on a eucilale
Is that how you spell eucilale? Learn something new everyday.

Typed it on an iPad and it auto corrected to god only knows what. I live in Germany and have to be able to type back in forth in three or four languages. You got my point though

I am shocked that grown men behave this way as far as trolling forums and such with my contraption is better than your contraption. I guess that is why I am a professional making my entire living at music. I just do it as opposed to talking about which piece of equipment I have that is better than someone Else's. People are too good in my business for me to do something other than practice and work hard if I want to be successful.

Synthesizedclapping · Post by **Synthesizedclapping** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 3:53 pm

operaman wrote:
Synthesizedclapping wrote:
operaman wrote: Listen, I could care less if you compose whole compositions on a eucilale
Is that how you spell eucilale? Learn something new everyday.
Typed it on an iPad and it auto corrected to god only knows what. I live in Germany and have to be able to type back in forth in three or four languages. You got my point though

I am shocked that grown men behave this way as far as trolling forums and such with my contraption is better than your contraption. I guess that is why I am a professional making my entire living at music. I just do it as opposed to talking about which piece of equipment I have that is better than someone Else's. People are too good in my business for me to do something other than practice and work hard if I want to be successful.

Oh no I actually don't know how to spell it so I figured that was it

no joke there.

Often people forget that the only thing important is making music but instead they turn into fan boys and trolls. It's a shame. This is what society has come to.

Side note, I was watching Rush: Beyond the lighted Stage, and they said te synth isn't an instrument. (The guitarist)

mjames4208 · Post by **mjames4208** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 4:00 pm

i'm sitting here going thru the U-D banks..... these guitars sound just as good or better than my motif-rack, fantomxr & motifxs.
presets i mind you... no tweaking.
different but not worse by any means.

cello · Post by **cello** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 4:05 pm

Synthesizedclapping wrote:Side note, I was watching Rush: Beyond the lighted Stage, and they said te synth isn't an instrument. (The guitarist)

Interesting that that notion is still going around. When I left school with a couple of piano performance diplomas (Licentiate of the Royal Academy of Music and Associate of the London College of Music), I applied to various universities to study composition with 'electronic instruments'. I was told that this was a contradiction in terms, so never went to university as a result.

Of course these days, it is more unusual for a university to NOT have such a course!

I agree that a synth does not equal a cello, for example - cellists have to pull perfectly pitched notes out of thin air everytime they play them, unlike any keyboard which is perfectly pitched everytime (unless programmed otherwise). But as for them both being an interpretive tool that requires skill /knowledge to play - absolutely!

synthguy · Post by **synthguy** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 4:44 pm

Just to troll for a bit, but not really, I can't play the acoustic guitars on my Motif because the response in the patch isn't dynamic enough. My M3 is good enough, but to be honest, I like playing guitars on my Ensoniq TS-10 most of all, and am thinking of getting a used Ensoniq sampler at some point. I really dig the heck out of the way the Ensoniq engine response to velocity.

BergerS · Post by **BergerS** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:06 pm

synthguy wrote:Just to troll for a bit, but not really, I can't play the acoustic guitars on my Motif because the response in the patch isn't dynamic enough. My M3 is good enough, but to be honest, I like playing guitars on my Ensoniq TS-10 most of all, and am thinking of getting a used Ensoniq sampler at some point. I really dig the heck out of the way the Ensoniq engine response to velocity.

Thank you! another Ensoniq owner who knows what I'm talking about!
If this instrument had a 64note polyphony, some nice filters, and 2 additional bus of the marvelous effects it already has, the sky's is the limit!

I think its an issue of design approach, I believe Ensoniq was designed by Americans who simply has a different ear, oriented to a different style of sound and music.

I don't want to troll or put down Kronos, it is a great technological achievement in musical all in one workstations, I just think its sad that old instruments with a fraction of the technological capabilities are so much fun to play.

"operaman", I understand your point, and I'd love to ask the Korg specialists about the availability of future sound banks, but this approach was discussed here many times by people who were bitchin about Kronos even before it came out, and the answer was "don't buy the instrument hoping Korg will support it with additional sound banks/engines, but only if you are happy with what it has now".
I think Korg will be wise to support Kronos with substential upgrades, but I have to many Oasys owners who say otherwise.

So I don't ask questions I'm not going to get answers for, I'll have to test the instrument as is and decide if I'm going to buy it based on what it sounds like today.

EXer · Post by **EXer** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:18 pm

Synthesizedclapping wrote:Side note, I was watching Rush: Beyond the lighted Stage, and they said te synth isn't an instrument. (The guitarist)

Listening to what the guitarists play is already a goodwill gesture, so let's not listen to what they say

burningbusch · Post by **burningbusch** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:21 pm

You know I spent about an hour reworking one of the Kronos STR-1 patches and came up with this Nylon String Gtr. Unlike the Motif, which is only three velocity layers which jump abruptly one to the next, the Kronos is completely linear so it plays like an instrument with a wonderful dynamic range. You can change the timbre of each string plus dozens of other meaningful parameters. I love the warm, organic quality of the sound.

It's really too bad Yamaha has abandoned everything but basic sample playback. It's really going to come back to bite them, IMO.

Kronos Nylon String Gtr (STR-1)

BTW, I agree the Nylon String Gtr (and the solo violin) on the Motifs is one of their best patches. I just sampled it and a few other sounds using SampleIt before I sold off my Motif XS Rack. Doesn't make sense to keep hanging on to these hardware pieces for a few decent patches.

Busch.