For those who of you who have a Vsynth and an OASYS.....what can the Vsynth do that an OASYS can't? What is it that makes it so special and unique?
ANy thoughts? Thanks
Question: VSYNTH vs OASYS/KRONOS
Moderators: Sharp, X-Trade, Pepperpotty, karmathanever
-
Rocness
Re: Question: VSYNTH vs OASYS/KRONOS
Don't ask what your Oasys can do for you , but what you can do for your Oasys.mymusic42 wrote:For those who of you who have a Vsynth and an OASYS.....what can the Vsynth do that an OASYS can't? What is it that makes it so special and unique?
ANy thoughts? Thanks
Vsynth is a dedicated synth with some amazing sound shaping capabilities ( I don't have one btw ), Oasys is a complete music workstation from idea to record to cd to hit record to American music awards sitting next to Sting and Bono
.To me The Oasys just sounds and feels organic and begs you to play and shape it, almost every sound is like that amazing. I will be very impressed if Kronos has all those subtleties Oasys has , it's the little things that makes Oasys special and unique to me . I don't have a Vsynth but I know some people prefer the 1st one to the 2nd one ,I don't know why but if your into programming and making new sounds you should love it.-
Kevin Nolan
- Approved Merchant
- Posts: 2524
- Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 3:08 pm
- Location: Dublin, Ireland
- Contact:
mymusic42 -
I own both. They are very different instruments and probably shouldn’t be compared.
Although I've owned the V-Synth GT for well over a year, I haven't had the time to delve into it in depth - too busy but it’s on the cards for sure
Simply put, the V Synth GT is equally professional, equally serious and equally powerful to the OASYS, but in very different ways. Of coruse the V Synth GT is a true synthesizer and only offers the option to play it as such, where as the OASYS, warts and all, can deliver full workstation production capabilities and a far more versatile set of features. But for what the V Synth GT is designed for, boy does it deliver. As you may know, the major aspects of the V Synth are:
- Virtual Analogue Synthesis. Absolutely wonderful. Different to AL-1, Virus and so on but equally strong.
- Vocal designer. This is why I bought the V-Synth GT. Here, you can affect the timbral character of a voice without affecting the pitch and vice versa. For example – you can take a tenor voice and transform it into a castrato! Of course it has many other applications – for example – taking in a sampled phase and playing it at different pitches without changing the timing or tempo. So this is what they call ‘Elastic Audio’ and it’s magnificent. The other aspect of this is the ability to speak in a phrase from a single person and have it convolved with choir sounds, so that what comes out of the V Synth is a full choir. What’s more, the person does not need to sing the intended musical phrase – instead – you play the required melody and harmony on the keyboard and it sounds like a (4 part) choir. It’s a little tricky to get right but when you do it sounds excellent. What I intend to do here on a project with my sister (a mezzo soprano) is have her narrate into Apple Logic. I’ll then use dynamic processors to reduce her dynamics range to allow for a more monotone recital; and then play the required choir part on the V-Synth GT and record that as MIDI into Logic. Then, fix the timing between my playing and my sister’s narration to high precision to achieve quite realistic full choir. But check out demos on Youtube – some are great.
- Articulation Synthesis. Here, Roland have taken the playing articulation of a violin, flute, sax and Chinese Erthu and converted them into a set of algorithms which you can ‘imprint’ on any V-Synth GT sound, from a simple Sawtooth wave to an imported sample. What you get is a very natural, very organic ‘envelope’ of how your played notes sound over time. But – just as Karma goes way beyond arranger-patterns or arpeggiators, Articulation synthesis goes way beyond envelopes because Articulation synthesis gives you real-time control over how the individual imprinted articulation unfolds – you can use velocity, aftertouch, modulation bender, D-beam and so on to affect the unfolding of the articulation of the note. So you can make a note ‘sing’ and it sounds very convincing – especially on ethnic type instruments – very similar to Virtual Acoustic Synthesis on the Yamaha VL-1 (I use one of these also). Even better – the only actual ‘Articulation Synthesis’ control, per-say, is a single knob affecting the intensity of the articulation – so it’s so straight forward, its a dream.
Apart from the above defining qualities on what is a one-off and superlative synthesizer, the following also earnestly contribute to making the V Synht GT one of the best synthesizer designs ever released:
- Touch Screen Operating System – incredibly well designed – indeed – superior to the OASYS in design IMO. Think ‘Russian Dolls’. This OS is so obvious there’s almost no learning required. From the outer screen touch on a tone. From Tone touch on an oscillator, or a filter or an envelope to affect it – it’s all there in clear layers and an absolute breeze to use. I’m one of those who takes forever to learn a synth (and very often I never get there) but the V Synth GT is THE most obvious modern synth I’ve come across.
- The V Synth GT’s Samples and Waveforms are absolutely fabulous. I also own an XV5080 and Roland are very often blamed for rehashing the same sample set – but the VSynth GT is NOT an XV5080 (also an excellent module by the way) and is NOT a Fanthom w.r.t it's onboard sample set.
- Realtime control through the dual D-Beam, Time Trip Pad and so on are just fantastic. In fact, the D Beam is almost as good as breadth control; and if there is one slight criticism of Korg is that they have not embraces alternative control as have Yamaha and Roland (though Yamaha have abandoned Breadth Control of late).
Anyway, we’ve all sung the praises of OASYS for years on this forum – you can scan past posts to see how awesome it is – so there is no need to look negatively at an OASYS versus a V Synth GT. They are both magnificent – and I really mean that – they are a privilege to play – but they are very different. Roland are to be applauded for having put so much original synthesis into just one instrument and its a great pity it’s so expensive and has been recently discontinued (I believe). But the upcoming Kronos will be equally impressive, so you’re spoilt for choice!!
Kevin.
I own both. They are very different instruments and probably shouldn’t be compared.
Although I've owned the V-Synth GT for well over a year, I haven't had the time to delve into it in depth - too busy but it’s on the cards for sure
Simply put, the V Synth GT is equally professional, equally serious and equally powerful to the OASYS, but in very different ways. Of coruse the V Synth GT is a true synthesizer and only offers the option to play it as such, where as the OASYS, warts and all, can deliver full workstation production capabilities and a far more versatile set of features. But for what the V Synth GT is designed for, boy does it deliver. As you may know, the major aspects of the V Synth are:
- Virtual Analogue Synthesis. Absolutely wonderful. Different to AL-1, Virus and so on but equally strong.
- Vocal designer. This is why I bought the V-Synth GT. Here, you can affect the timbral character of a voice without affecting the pitch and vice versa. For example – you can take a tenor voice and transform it into a castrato! Of course it has many other applications – for example – taking in a sampled phase and playing it at different pitches without changing the timing or tempo. So this is what they call ‘Elastic Audio’ and it’s magnificent. The other aspect of this is the ability to speak in a phrase from a single person and have it convolved with choir sounds, so that what comes out of the V Synth is a full choir. What’s more, the person does not need to sing the intended musical phrase – instead – you play the required melody and harmony on the keyboard and it sounds like a (4 part) choir. It’s a little tricky to get right but when you do it sounds excellent. What I intend to do here on a project with my sister (a mezzo soprano) is have her narrate into Apple Logic. I’ll then use dynamic processors to reduce her dynamics range to allow for a more monotone recital; and then play the required choir part on the V-Synth GT and record that as MIDI into Logic. Then, fix the timing between my playing and my sister’s narration to high precision to achieve quite realistic full choir. But check out demos on Youtube – some are great.
- Articulation Synthesis. Here, Roland have taken the playing articulation of a violin, flute, sax and Chinese Erthu and converted them into a set of algorithms which you can ‘imprint’ on any V-Synth GT sound, from a simple Sawtooth wave to an imported sample. What you get is a very natural, very organic ‘envelope’ of how your played notes sound over time. But – just as Karma goes way beyond arranger-patterns or arpeggiators, Articulation synthesis goes way beyond envelopes because Articulation synthesis gives you real-time control over how the individual imprinted articulation unfolds – you can use velocity, aftertouch, modulation bender, D-beam and so on to affect the unfolding of the articulation of the note. So you can make a note ‘sing’ and it sounds very convincing – especially on ethnic type instruments – very similar to Virtual Acoustic Synthesis on the Yamaha VL-1 (I use one of these also). Even better – the only actual ‘Articulation Synthesis’ control, per-say, is a single knob affecting the intensity of the articulation – so it’s so straight forward, its a dream.
Apart from the above defining qualities on what is a one-off and superlative synthesizer, the following also earnestly contribute to making the V Synht GT one of the best synthesizer designs ever released:
- Touch Screen Operating System – incredibly well designed – indeed – superior to the OASYS in design IMO. Think ‘Russian Dolls’. This OS is so obvious there’s almost no learning required. From the outer screen touch on a tone. From Tone touch on an oscillator, or a filter or an envelope to affect it – it’s all there in clear layers and an absolute breeze to use. I’m one of those who takes forever to learn a synth (and very often I never get there) but the V Synth GT is THE most obvious modern synth I’ve come across.
- The V Synth GT’s Samples and Waveforms are absolutely fabulous. I also own an XV5080 and Roland are very often blamed for rehashing the same sample set – but the VSynth GT is NOT an XV5080 (also an excellent module by the way) and is NOT a Fanthom w.r.t it's onboard sample set.
- Realtime control through the dual D-Beam, Time Trip Pad and so on are just fantastic. In fact, the D Beam is almost as good as breadth control; and if there is one slight criticism of Korg is that they have not embraces alternative control as have Yamaha and Roland (though Yamaha have abandoned Breadth Control of late).
Anyway, we’ve all sung the praises of OASYS for years on this forum – you can scan past posts to see how awesome it is – so there is no need to look negatively at an OASYS versus a V Synth GT. They are both magnificent – and I really mean that – they are a privilege to play – but they are very different. Roland are to be applauded for having put so much original synthesis into just one instrument and its a great pity it’s so expensive and has been recently discontinued (I believe). But the upcoming Kronos will be equally impressive, so you’re spoilt for choice!!
Kevin.
Interesting description - thanx Kevin! 
BTW: it doesn't seem discontinued: http://www.roland.com/V-Synth/
BTW: it doesn't seem discontinued: http://www.roland.com/V-Synth/
I Love the V synths,I own both an XT rack and a GT keyboard,for me its one of the best newer generation of synths that really bring something new to the table,a whole lot of synth for the money(although the GT is really expensive now)glad I bought it when it was at a more realistic price 3 years ago.
I wouldn't compare the V synth to the Oasys there different beasts but its a great compliment to the Oasys for sure.
Don't really utilise the Vocal designer except for some vocoder stuff,its about the most powerful vocal modelling machine I've ever used as its good for all sort of harmony stuff and good at emulating choirs and the like but the most of it I never found a use for in my music apart from Vocoder type patches,seemed a bit to "Enya" esque or me
The only negative point I can think of with the GT from my personal setup is that they should have placed the D beam more conveniently,because of this the GT had to be placed on the top tier of my rig,because if it was placed underneath other synths in a stand the D beam would be on because of it detecting the synth above it,so I either had to place it at the top or switch the D beam off altogether.Ok not perhaps everyones problem but certainly did for me as I Liked to have the GT on the bottom tier of one of my live stands and a Mono evolver on top of it so it wasn't top heavy.I had to use a workaround for it by using the Time trip pad to control what the D Beam would have been triggering and switch the Beam off.I do find the Key action on the GT a little clunky and bouncy too.(presume its the same synth action as the Fantom G,Never really liked Rolands Semi weighted keys apart from the one on the JD800.
The USB method to transfer patches/Projects i found a little clumsy until you get used to it and its quite frustrating until you get your head around how it works
I use the sampling side immensly its one of the biggest reasons why I bought the V synth as the Variphrase stuff I use a lot and use the step modulator to create some weird and wonderful manglings,Polyphony in the GT is not brilliant especially if your using Dual patches,would be good if they allowed cross platform engines in the XT to be built say for instance using a D50 sound along with either the PCM or VA engines for layering of sorts,I currently do this with the GT and XT but would be good if it allowed it in one machine.
Roland addressed a few of the annoying bugs with the V2 updates which one was the screen not updating to knob movements the old system was slow and didn't move in realtime and was slow to redraw but they sorted this out and added some new fx as well as a few other fixes,and allow you to boot it up in different modes too I do hope they continue the V synth series,shame they never carried over the D50 replication over in the GT its one of The reasons I bought the rack as well,The D50 was one of the most used synths I ever owned and I made a lot of sounds on that,so sold my 2 D50s and part funded the XT and can still retain my patches I made and still use the PG programmer as well to program the D50 in the XT
I wouldn't compare the V synth to the Oasys there different beasts but its a great compliment to the Oasys for sure.
Don't really utilise the Vocal designer except for some vocoder stuff,its about the most powerful vocal modelling machine I've ever used as its good for all sort of harmony stuff and good at emulating choirs and the like but the most of it I never found a use for in my music apart from Vocoder type patches,seemed a bit to "Enya" esque or me
The only negative point I can think of with the GT from my personal setup is that they should have placed the D beam more conveniently,because of this the GT had to be placed on the top tier of my rig,because if it was placed underneath other synths in a stand the D beam would be on because of it detecting the synth above it,so I either had to place it at the top or switch the D beam off altogether.Ok not perhaps everyones problem but certainly did for me as I Liked to have the GT on the bottom tier of one of my live stands and a Mono evolver on top of it so it wasn't top heavy.I had to use a workaround for it by using the Time trip pad to control what the D Beam would have been triggering and switch the Beam off.I do find the Key action on the GT a little clunky and bouncy too.(presume its the same synth action as the Fantom G,Never really liked Rolands Semi weighted keys apart from the one on the JD800.
The USB method to transfer patches/Projects i found a little clumsy until you get used to it and its quite frustrating until you get your head around how it works
I use the sampling side immensly its one of the biggest reasons why I bought the V synth as the Variphrase stuff I use a lot and use the step modulator to create some weird and wonderful manglings,Polyphony in the GT is not brilliant especially if your using Dual patches,would be good if they allowed cross platform engines in the XT to be built say for instance using a D50 sound along with either the PCM or VA engines for layering of sorts,I currently do this with the GT and XT but would be good if it allowed it in one machine.
Roland addressed a few of the annoying bugs with the V2 updates which one was the screen not updating to knob movements the old system was slow and didn't move in realtime and was slow to redraw but they sorted this out and added some new fx as well as a few other fixes,and allow you to boot it up in different modes too I do hope they continue the V synth series,shame they never carried over the D50 replication over in the GT its one of The reasons I bought the rack as well,The D50 was one of the most used synths I ever owned and I made a lot of sounds on that,so sold my 2 D50s and part funded the XT and can still retain my patches I made and still use the PG programmer as well to program the D50 in the XT
--Korg Nautilus~~Korg Modwave--Korg SV-1-Korg Wavestate--
I think he was indicating that the OASYS has finally been retired with the arrival of KRONOS.Charlie wrote:Interesting description - thanx Kevin!
BTW: it doesn't seem discontinued: http://www.roland.com/V-Synth/
-
Kevin Nolan
- Approved Merchant
- Posts: 2524
- Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 3:08 pm
- Location: Dublin, Ireland
- Contact:
Tricky question to answer. Here are some pointers:jg:: wrote:Just a question from one who has very little knowledge of Roland these days - does the new JP80 include any of the V-synth's technology?
jg::
1. Vocal Design - for creating Vocoding and for creating virtual realtime choirs - is not on the JP80
2. Variphrase (for 'elastic' audio so good for time stretching, formant manipulaiton etc...) - it is definitely NOT on the JP80
3. Atriculation Phrase Synthesis, seems to be reborn as Supernatural synthesis. Here, the JP80 seems to go well beyond the V-Synth GT's AP synthesis, offering:
- (I believe) - some instrument virtual modelling
- Modelling of articulaiton and performance (this is big, very programmable and is, IMO, completely mis-judged by current appraisals of the JP80 - even on the V-Synth GT there is stunning programmability here, and I expect the JP80 to go even further)
- Artificial learning by the JP80 as to how you play, applying that to performance modelling (?)
If these are true, it suggests the JP80 becomes a significant preformance modelling instrument, far and beyond the V-Synth GT's Articulation Phrase synthesis.
4. Virtual Analogue - here the JP80 offers similar capabilities to the V-Synth GT's Virtual Analogue synthesis, emulating analogue synthesizers of the past. One significant improvement in this regard over the V-Synth GT is polyphony (and possibly effects) - if used only in this mode the JP80 offers no less than 256 voices and will allow for up to 28 oscillators to be stacked per note to offer the mother of all layering possibilities, when compared to the v-Synth GT's 24 (28?) note polyphony. This is once serious Virtual Analogue synthesizer - with about 3 times the raw DSP power of, say, the Virus TI.
Also - Roland claim this is a new Virtual Analogue engine - so perhaps there are enhancements over the likes of the V-Synth GT and GAIA. Finally, there seems to be reference to Supernatural technology with this too, so I'm not sure if Roland are just including their Virtual Analogue synth engine in the general 'catch all' phrase of 'Supernatural' or whether there are extra enhancements ot their Virual Analogue eninge that use new, Supernatural, capabilities (I suspect it's the former but need to check the manual on it).
So for what the JP80 does it appears it will do it supremely well; but the V-Synth GT remains a formidable beast, far more versatile in it's sound design and processing capabilities, but which the JP80 isn't trying to touch upon.
Kevin.
I'm really interested in the JP80,I'm a huge fan of the v synth series,and Roland seem to have this knack for creating some really interesting and unique synths in amongst some of their legacy.
So far the demo videos don't really show what this machine is really capable of and if the specs are anything to go by that va engine is going to do some serious sound mangling.
The name doesn't really alter my perception of what it is being deemed as even though some see it as a cardinal sin to badge it with a Jupiter name when it has very little to do with the legacy of the classic, except perhaps a nod to it's styling of the fascia
I'm hoping I can get the chance to demo this synth in person soon as I'm reluctant to buy into it blindly without some really convincing videos and more in depth abilities by those demoing them,the price is a little high for what it is essentially and I'm kind of hoping Roland may review it given the competition around at this moment,need to really hear it firsthand before delving into it,not sure of there motive behind(at the moment)only making it available in 76 key,as much as they may be targeting it primarily at performers who perhaps need the extra octave,I would be more comfortable with the option of a 61 too.
So far the demo videos don't really show what this machine is really capable of and if the specs are anything to go by that va engine is going to do some serious sound mangling.
The name doesn't really alter my perception of what it is being deemed as even though some see it as a cardinal sin to badge it with a Jupiter name when it has very little to do with the legacy of the classic, except perhaps a nod to it's styling of the fascia
I'm hoping I can get the chance to demo this synth in person soon as I'm reluctant to buy into it blindly without some really convincing videos and more in depth abilities by those demoing them,the price is a little high for what it is essentially and I'm kind of hoping Roland may review it given the competition around at this moment,need to really hear it firsthand before delving into it,not sure of there motive behind(at the moment)only making it available in 76 key,as much as they may be targeting it primarily at performers who perhaps need the extra octave,I would be more comfortable with the option of a 61 too.
--Korg Nautilus~~Korg Modwave--Korg SV-1-Korg Wavestate--
-
Mike Conway
- Approved Merchant
- Posts: 2485
- Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:44 pm
- Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
The JP-80, Vsynth and OASYS/Kronos are different beasts.
OASYS - multi-engines (FM, Physical modelling, VAs and sample playback)
JP-80 - Supernatural, which uses mostly sample based tones, but combined with articulation (akin to Yamaha Tyros 4). One of the Supernatural boards for the Fantom G were Drums, which seemed to have a lot of the V-Drum type parameters.
Vsynth - "Elastic Audio" or Variphrase sampling. To use this, the Vsynth will encode samples. There are separate controls for Formant, Time and Pitch, which allow for a single "Aaaah" sample to sound like multiple singers, when a chord is held - without the chipmunk pitch artifacting. This allows single samples to retain their realism across a far wider range of keys than traditional sampling. On the other hand, samples can be slowed down and turned into incredible pad sounds.
I hate this sample, but here is some guy using the Time Trip Pad, which you can run your finger across. When dragging your finger the sample will play forwards, backwards, slower, faster.
The VA part of the V-Synth is very similar to the JP-8000.
OASYS - multi-engines (FM, Physical modelling, VAs and sample playback)
JP-80 - Supernatural, which uses mostly sample based tones, but combined with articulation (akin to Yamaha Tyros 4). One of the Supernatural boards for the Fantom G were Drums, which seemed to have a lot of the V-Drum type parameters.
Vsynth - "Elastic Audio" or Variphrase sampling. To use this, the Vsynth will encode samples. There are separate controls for Formant, Time and Pitch, which allow for a single "Aaaah" sample to sound like multiple singers, when a chord is held - without the chipmunk pitch artifacting. This allows single samples to retain their realism across a far wider range of keys than traditional sampling. On the other hand, samples can be slowed down and turned into incredible pad sounds.
I hate this sample, but here is some guy using the Time Trip Pad, which you can run your finger across. When dragging your finger the sample will play forwards, backwards, slower, faster.
The VA part of the V-Synth is very similar to the JP-8000.