Jupiter 80....I bought it.....

synthguy · Post by **synthguy** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:18 am

Kontrol49 wrote:Thanks for the indepth review Ron.

Truly, this is solidifying my interest in the JP-80, and the wisdom of Roland in using the legendary "Jupiter" name on it, something I was quick to question myself. But now I see the very sound reason for it. Analog purists had seizures over the news, insisting that Roland had basically killed the JP-80 right out of the gate, and that the entire keyboard world would make Roland pay for not producing a proper analog synth with discreet components, like Moog did for the Voyager.

But as I posted over at Gear... Slutz (gah, that name), if they had made an analog synth with a decent control panel, people would still complain that it sounded nothing like the original and take a huge dump on it anyway.

Rocness · Post by **Rocness** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:55 am

Does the JP80 bring all effects with it's patches when building a live set or registration type combi ?

Can you explain what a live set is and a registration compared to a program and a combi .

Thanks

Michael Robles · Post by **Michael Robles** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:09 am

How actually "analog" was the original JP8 compared to Oberheim or Moog? Also why would Roland re issue the same synth 25 yrs later? Isn't that what
Dave Smith Instruments recently did with the Prophet 08?

Most likely the new Jupiter 80 reproduces all the original and most popular '70s patches of the JP8 with improved effects? I believe Roland will issue JP8 legacy patch banks, if not already found in the presets.

Chriskk · Post by **Chriskk** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:27 am

Most likely the new Jupiter 80 reproduces all the original and most popular '70s patches of the JP8 with improved effects?

I read the SoS review. IIRC, the reviewer blind-tested the JP-80 and the JP-8 side by side and he coudn't tell the difference most of time.

McHale · Post by **McHale** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:46 am

Chriskk wrote:
Most likely the new Jupiter 80 reproduces all the original and most popular '70s patches of the JP8 with improved effects?
I read the SoS review. IIRC, the reviewer blind-tested the JP-80 and the JP-8 side by side and he coudn't tell the difference most of time.

Yet, Roland Clan says the complete opposite:

http://forums.rolandclan.com/viewtopic. ... 18&start=0

What I got from the SOS Jupiter-80 review is that the reviewer knows firsthand how the original Jupiter 8 sounded, and unfortunately, the Jupiter-80 is NO Jupiter 8, not even close apparently. In fact, it is obvious the Jupiter-80 'lacks' in Jupiter 8 appeal to such a large degree that Roland should have named the Jupiter-80 something else, like the Stage-80, etc. In other words, to even associate the Jupiter-80 with the legendary Jupiter 8 is stretching the truth and evidently the boundaries of reality too it seems. And the "embarrassment" from such a bad decision could actually hurt Roland's public image because Roland is saying the Jupiter-80 is a metamorphosis of the legendary Jupiter-8 when apparently it doesn't even come close to achieving such a feat.

Bruce Lychee · Post by **Bruce Lychee** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:50 am

McHale wrote:
Chriskk wrote:
Most likely the new Jupiter 80 reproduces all the original and most popular '70s patches of the JP8 with improved effects?
I read the SoS review. IIRC, the reviewer blind-tested the JP-80 and the JP-8 side by side and he coudn't tell the difference most of time.
Yet, Roland Clan says the complete opposite:

http://forums.rolandclan.com/viewtopic. ... 18&start=0

What I got from the SOS Jupiter-80 review is that the reviewer knows firsthand how the original Jupiter 8 sounded, and unfortunately, the Jupiter-80 is NO Jupiter 8, not even close apparently. In fact, it is obvious the Jupiter-80 'lacks' in Jupiter 8 appeal to such a large degree that Roland should have named the Jupiter-80 something else, like the Stage-80, etc. In other words, to even associate the Jupiter-80 with the legendary Jupiter 8 is stretching the truth and evidently the boundaries of reality too it seems. And the "embarrassment" from such a bad decision could actually hurt Roland's public image because Roland is saying the Jupiter-80 is a metamorphosis of the legendary Jupiter-8 when apparently it doesn't even come close to achieving such a feat.

That was one guys rant... Who hasn't played the Jupiter and is interpreting the review which, in my opinion, said nothing of the sort. I don't think the rest of thread is like that all.

billysynth1 · Post by **billysynth1** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:11 am

Hi gents,

When you say the JP80 is a closed synth are you saying that no software updates are possible?

Billy

RonF · Post by **RonF** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:33 am

billysynth1 wrote:Hi gents,

When you say the JP80 is a closed synth are you saying that no software updates are possible?

Billy

Absolutely not. Software updates are very possible, as is content updates. However, the JP80 is not a sampler....so the raw material: waveforms, and oscillator types which patches are derived from, are limited to what Roland provides in its software modeling, and its wave ROM. So you cannot add sonic content of your own....you can only create by dissecting, slicing, and dicing, the factory material. There are literally thousands of sounds built in from Roland. You could program for a lifetime and not tap the possibilities. And the quality of the material is outstanding. But, if you don't for whatever reason find what you need or want in the factory material......there is no way for you augment it with your own. Thus: a closed system. Not unusual however....consider the Virus.....same basic situation. Periodically Access will do an update to add material or new oscillator types. Keeps things very interesting. I will hope that Roland does the same here. Even if not.....whats included is already stunning and lifetime full of possibilities.

RonF · Post by **RonF** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:34 am

Bruce Lychee wrote:
McHale wrote:
Chriskk wrote: I read the SoS review. IIRC, the reviewer blind-tested the JP-80 and the JP-8 side by side and he coudn't tell the difference most of time.
Yet, Roland Clan says the complete opposite:

http://forums.rolandclan.com/viewtopic. ... 18&start=0

What I got from the SOS Jupiter-80 review is that the reviewer knows firsthand how the original Jupiter 8 sounded, and unfortunately, the Jupiter-80 is NO Jupiter 8, not even close apparently. In fact, it is obvious the Jupiter-80 'lacks' in Jupiter 8 appeal to such a large degree that Roland should have named the Jupiter-80 something else, like the Stage-80, etc. In other words, to even associate the Jupiter-80 with the legendary Jupiter 8 is stretching the truth and evidently the boundaries of reality too it seems. And the "embarrassment" from such a bad decision could actually hurt Roland's public image because Roland is saying the Jupiter-80 is a metamorphosis of the legendary Jupiter-8 when apparently it doesn't even come close to achieving such a feat.

That was one guys rant... Who hasn't played the Jupiter and is interpreting the review which, in my opinion, said nothing of the sort. I don't think the rest of thread is like that all.

+1. The reviewer did find, as I find, a strong Jupiter flavor. Its not analog, no doubt, but its darn close in character. Closer than anything else you can get today, especially in a hardware synth.

RonF · Post by **RonF** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:37 am

Michael Robles wrote:How actually "analog" was the original JP8 compared to Oberheim or Moog? Also why would Roland re issue the same synth 25 yrs later? Isn't that what
Dave Smith Instruments recently did with the Prophet 08?

Most likely the new Jupiter 80 reproduces all the original and most popular '70s patches of the JP8 with improved effects? I believe Roland will issue JP8 legacy patch banks, if not already found in the presets.

AFAIK, the Jupiter 8 was a fully analog synth....VCO's onward.

Yes, the JP80 comes already with selected original JP8 factory presets on board. I assume these are modeled after the originals...and not a direct reproduction of exact JP8 patch data.

RonF · Post by **RonF** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:47 am

Rocness wrote:Does the JP80 bring all effects with it's patches when building a live set or registration type combi ?

Can you explain what a live set is and a registration compared to a program and a combi .

Thanks

Yes, and then adds layers of effects unique to the Live Set and Registration. Its a much more "friendly" structure than Korg's....but has some limitations which Korg does not.

A live set would be equivalent to a Program on Kronos. Its a container with a set of parameters to house the various components of its sound, which is named and saved as a "patch". A Registration is similar to a combi, in which multiple live sets and tones can be combined, mixed, layered, splits, and add effects. The Live Set goes deeper than Kronos Programs...in that it contains 4 tones....each of which has multiple sub layers called partials. Just one partial is a complete synth, with deep editing possibilities on its own. Therefore......a Registration can run literally dozens of oscillators.....and get truly huge. Imagine if you will....a dozen SuperSaws detuned to perfection. And that is about HALF the horse-power here. Amazing!

billysynth1 · Post by **billysynth1** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:38 am

Ron,

I think i prefer your earlier remark about a registration being like a super combi...if I'm correct i believe a tone has 3 partials, if a live set can have up to 4 tones, then you get 12 partials in a live set, or 12 synths, that's practically a korg combi. So a registration is significantly superior to korgs combi.

Imagine if you could have two combi's on the Kronos layered across the keyboard, or the ability to split the keyboard with a combi for the right hand and a combi for the left hand...well i guess that would give you the ability to have 32 programs all up in a super combi...i suppose a processor like i7 could handle something like this. And also give significantly more polyphony and effects.

That would be one hell of a super-synth production station.

Billy

Kontrol49 · Post by **Kontrol49** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:56 am

synthguy wrote: But as I posted over at Gear... Slutz (gah, that name), if they had made an analog synth with a decent control panel, people would still complain that it sounded nothing like the original and take a huge dump on it anyway.

I don't know what all the fuss is over them naming it Jupiter anyway,Its only a badge,and Roland have the rights to use the Jupiter name as they copyrighted it or such..its not made me think cool at last a Jupiter...its not made me turn away in disgust of it not being a real jupiter 8 even if they named it something else it would arouse my interest.

if they released a JP8 clone there would still be a massive withchunt towards them over some kind of flaw it had,You'll never win in a situation with those anal owners.

I would hazard a guess that the only ones who slate the JP80 and Roland's intentions to use a Jupiter logo are probably those over zealous and greedy Jupiter 8 sellers who are only to Happy to ride on the hype there dinosaurs create on various auction sites,perhaps they are now suffering from a dent in the wallet or their pride,thinking it will have a detrimental effect on secondhand prices of there beloved pension funds...

Those who own and use a Jupiter 8 for its features will not even have been worried or felt threatened by the release of the JP80,They see the diamonds in there synths and don't even worry about the Value
Whatever the intentions of Roland,whether it has the name or not,if its half as good as the V synths then I couldn't care less what they'd called it or what purists say.

sani · Post by **sani** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:21 am

billysynth1 wrote: I think i prefer your earlier remark about a registration being like a super combi...if I'm correct i believe a tone has 3 partials, if a live set can have up to 4 tones, then you get 12 partials in a live set, or 12 synths, that's practically a korg combi. So a registration is significantly superior to korgs combi.

The question is, what do you consider as "superior".
Put easy, on the JP80 you can combine two livesets. Each has 4 tones, each tone has 3 partials. That gives you 24 partials on the lowest level.
Look at the structure on a Korg since the M3:
1 combi holds 16 programs, each programs has 2 oscilators (partials). That makes 32 partials on the lowest level.

billysynth1 wrote:Imagine if you could have two combi's on the Kronos layered across the keyboard, or the ability to split the keyboard with a combi for the right hand and a combi for the left hand...well i guess that would give you the ability to have 32 programs all up in a super combi...

One can always imagine what would be if a company would make this or that. You are already able to build a combi with 16 programs and put 8 programs for the left hand and 8 programs for the right hand. That's 16 oscillators for each zone. It should be enough for the most wildest creations.

I think, people are bothering a little to much about names and terms which are used by companies. From a technical standpoint, the Kronos offers you not less power than what you can achieve on the Jp80.

Kontrol49 · Post by **Kontrol49** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:05 am

sani wrote: I think, people are bothering a little to much about names and terms which are used by companies. From a technical standpoint, the Kronos offers you not less power than what you can achieve on the Jp80.

I guess many people simply see the surface specs,because its highlighted to them,rather than looking beyond there thoughts and imagination and trying out solutions in there own tools,

When you consider the Triton only had 8 parts per combi,its more than feasible to create 2 combi type sounds based on the Kronos/Oasys/M3 combi parameters,although replicating those 2 Combis exact with all effects in tact may prove tricky unless some compromise would have to be taken into consideration,but its certainly achievable in the 16 part combis of the newer generation.